Topping D90 Balanced USB DAC Review

[JohnYang1997]

MQA pollutes the original source even under 16khz. So it's not only lossy it's maybe worse than 320k mp3. Fuck MQA.

 

[JohnYang1997]

That's too bad the short RCA's didn't help as @JohnYang1997 suggested earlier - that's the direction I was going with the 4 wire RCA without ground connection through the shield (see build configuration image below).

But, if I've already arrived at the best configuration with XLR only, I shouldn't pursue better RCA cables... I don't want to break / lift the ground pin on the A90 power.

It's either solve the problem with cables or other fixes - or don't waste time "over think[ing] this cabling" and return the A90?

As for me I don't mind the RCA noise sensitivities as long as I only use XLR, but upon resale or another situation it might require RCA and finding a working configuration for RCA with appropriate cables now would be useful in those situations.

Some have reported no problem on RCA with the A90 - unless they haven't noticed by switching to High Gain or Medium Gain at >50% volume - they have a setup that works for them on RCA, and I'm trying to figure out if I can arrive at a working RCA configuration or if all uses of RCA with the A90 results in noise at H Gain / M Gain + 50% or greater volume setting.

As others have mentioned they have had other equipment with RCA only configurations in their set up / location without such problems with noise as with the A90.

John, what do you think of the chances of improving the noise rejection through the 4 wire RCA cable configuration that doesn't connect the shield to the A90? Not as good as lifting the ground perhaps, but maybe it might help - I'm willing to risk the $ to give it a try - besides Amazon Prime lets me return for any reason.
View attachment 72083
John, how about a USB cable with separate data / power + ground between the D90 and PC (or other source)? Any suggestions?, perhaps something a bit cheaper than the ifi Gemini - BHphoto has it for $130 off right now:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod..._0306020_0_7m_usb2_0_gemini3_0_usb_b_2_0.html

BTW, Hifigo has offered to let me return the A90, but I'd like to find a solution to the RCA noise problem so I don't need to return the A90(+D90).

What's your dac and did you lift the earth pin on a90?

 

[hmscott]

What's your dac and did you lift the earth pin on a90?

D90 MQA + A90 + XLR (+ RCA - removed right now) - waiting on an RCA noise solution before I choose and order powered speakers.

I didn't lift the earth pin because you said you wouldn't recommend doing that:

A90 will use the ground from the upstream as the earth connection. Is it safe? I think for the longest time I don't think anything would happen. But I will not be responsible for any damage. Because I still recommend using XLR. From my recommendation, make sure one of the devices is earthed.
In terms of performance, shorter rca cable would help a lot. Then if you cannot hear any noise then it's fine. Listening is ultimately what matters right?
Balanced connection itself is immune to these kind of issues inherently and it's the sole reason why it's there.

Right now I don't have a ground breaker adapter or a cable available with the pin removed so I haven't tried it. I've used a ground breaker (pull the ground pin) in the past with a ground loop for an amplifier (decades ago) and found it was a faulty Pre-AMP - I had it replaced with a different model and the ground loop went away.

I've had lots of equipment since then and this is the first time I've run across this problem of high pitched tone on H Gain with 0% volume with RCA + XLR or just RCA between DAC / AMP.

I've been careful wiring power in the past with separate power runs and solid grounds to avoid ground loops, but I have had EMI / RF interferences I've solved with low pass filters and ferrite.

I'm game to try some cable swaps to work this out if you can find a configuration to recommend.

 

[hmscott]

This thread has been a rollercoaster. I've got an issue I was hoping someone here could assist me with.

I've got a D90 (non-MQA, in DAC only mode) and a Monoprice THX 887 headphone amp. I've also got the Sennheiser HD650 cans. I decided to make my own XLR cables using Mogami W2549 and Neutrik NC3XX-B connectors. I also made my own 4-pin XLR cable to the HD650 cans using Canere L-4E6S quad star cable, Neutrik NC4MX-B and Cardas connectors. It was a fun project, but I'm hearing things that don't sound right to me. I'm hearing some crackles at higher frequencies. Specifically, higher notes on piano on Elton John's "Rotten Peaches" and static/crackling on Gregory Porter's "Hey Laura". What's interesting about the Topping / Monoprice combo, I can plug in both RCA and XLR and select between them on the Monoprice by pressing the input button. If I use the Sennheiser stock single ended cable into the 887, and select between custom XLR and pre-made RCA (and quickly adjusting for relative loudness) I'm not hearing the crackle/static on the RCAs. But when I switch to custom XLR (while still on the stock single ended cable) and adjusting volume, I'm hearing crackle at the end of instruments playing. I can't understand how just soldering wire (Mogami) into XLR cups would do this. Using a multi-meter, I've tested the XLRs and I'm not getting any crossed wires. This makes me think I need to build new XLRs. They are very short runs, maybe 12 inches? I've got the gain knob on the 887 down to a 1 and still hear some crackle. Do I need to put the DAC back into pre-amp mode and turn the volume down a bit? I've seen several other folks on this thread mention they have the same setup. Are they hearing this crackle? What should be my next step? Thanks!

There have been reports of THX 887 (and other AMPS) being overdriven by the D90, so yes put the D90 in Pre mode and try -9.0dB or -12.0dB first to see if that stops the "crackling".

Remove the RCA connections and only use XLR. That's been my problem with the D90 MQA + A90, the noise is coming in through the PC USB cable. If I remove the USB cable from the D90 the crackling goes away. For me that crackling happens even during idle non-playback and is heard through the A90 output to my headphones.

For me I still get a high pitched tone out the A90 in H Gain 0% volume and up with the USB removed and XLR + RCA connected between the A90 and D90 MQA.

With XLR only there is no noise at all even in H Gain 100%. Right now I am running with XLR only, with the RCA connections disconnected and I have no noise in any Gain setting all the way to 100% volume.

I still run the D90 in PRE mode to support more sensitive IEM's as even in L Gain the A90 volume control range is at the bottom of the dial without much headroom to control the volume. Setting the D90 MQA in PRE mode at -12dB covers most of the IEM's but I've played with setting the D90 MQA in PRE mode at -30dB and used M Gain to see if there is a difference, and to my ears there is, still working on finding the best settings for those IEM's.

I have an RCA 1.5m cable to go to powered speakers but I haven't ordered them yet, I may only be able to use XLR to them too so I've been waiting on ordering them to work out the RCA noise issues first.

 

[JohnYang1997]

There have been reports of THX 887 (and other AMPS) being overdriven by the D90, so yes put the D90 in Pre mode and try -9.0dB or -12.0dB first to see if that stops the "crackling".

Remove the RCA connections and only use XLR. That's been my problem with the D90 MQA + A90, the noise is coming in through the PC USB cable. If I remove the USB cable from the D90 the crackling goes away. For me that cracking happens even during idle non-playback and is heard through the A90 output to my headphones.

For me I still get a high pitched tone out the A90 in H Gain 0% volume and up with the USB removed and XLR + RCA connected.

With XLR only there is no noise at all even in H Gain 100%. Right now I am running in XLR only with the RCA connections disconnected and I have no noise.

I still run the D90 in PRE mode to support more sensitive IEM's as even in L Gain the A90 volume control range is at the bottom of the dial without much headroom to control the volume. Setting the D90 MQA at -12dB covers most of the IEM's but I've played with setting the D90 MQA at -30dB and used M Gain to see if there is a difference, and to my ears there is, still working on finding the best settings for those IEM's.

I have an RCA 1.5m cable to go to powered speakers but I haven't ordered them yet, I may only be able to use XLR to them too so I've been waiting on ordering them to work out the RCA noise issues first.

Is it possible that it's the opposite of the issue. Which there should be earth connection but your house didn't have or plugs don't have that? I know it's probably a non existent issue in other countries but it's quite often in China.

 

[hmscott]

Is it possible that it's the opposite of the issue. Which there should be earth connection but your house didn't have or plugs don't have that? I know it's probably a non existent issue in other countries but it's quite often in China.

No, it's a modern construction and the lights on the devices that check for correct wiring have all lit green. The power is steady and no other devices are exhibiting noise or power line issues.

Unfortunately with the lockdown I don't really have options to move to another location to try the D90 MQA / A90 on different power / grounding. I could hire a local PC repair shop to set it up on their benches but it wouldn't be cheap. It's a last resort, but I've thought of doing it if I can't get a solution here. I don't think we are there yet. Again, the power ground detection here is green, and other devices are operating without noise.

In your lab with the D90 / A90 connected via XLR + RCA or just RCA in H-Gain mode at 0%-100% volume can you hear a tone in the headphone output?

What about the USB crackling I get from a USB PC source? - do you hear that as well in your testing in M Gain at 50%-100% volume and in H-Gain at 0%-100%? With XLR+RCA or just RCA?

 

[JohnYang1997]

No, it's a modern construction and the lights on the devices that check for correct wiring have all lit green. The power is steady and no other devices are exhibiting noise or power line issues.

Unfortunately with the lockdown I don't really have options to move to another location to try the D90 MQA / A90 on different power / grounding. I could hire a local shop to set it up but it wouldn't be cheap. It's a last resort, but I've thought of doing it if I can't get a solution here. I don't think we are there yet, and again the power here and other devices are operating without noise.

In your lab with the D90 / A90 connected via XLR + RCA or just RCA in H-Gain mode at 0%-100% volume can you hear a tone in the headphone output?

What about the USB crackling I get from a USB PC source? - do you hear that as well in your testing in M Gain at 50%-100% volume and in H-Gain at 0%-100%? With XLR+RCA or just RCA?

Next step maybe lift the earth pin but make sure the dac is properly grounded.
In terms of the crackling from usb, I really have no idea. I had been using d90+a90(proto) for months didn't have any issue.

 

[hmscott]

Next step maybe lift the earth pin but make sure the dac is properly grounded.
In terms of the crackling from usb, I really have no idea. I had been using d90+a90(proto) for months didn't have any issue.

Have you been using the d90+a90(proto) with RCA connections only? or RCA + XLR? Or only with XLR connections?

Please try RCA only and RCA + XLR to see what you can detect via USB connected / disconnected at H Gain.

 

[JohnYang1997]

Have you been using the d90+a90(proto) with RCA connections only? or RCA + XLR? Or only with XLR connections?

There wasn't a issue with XLR connection right? The crackling? Maybe RCA only.

 

[Nybto]

I just checked it again. I connected my Geshelli Archel headphone amp, it is there. This crackling is coming from the D90. This is my test track (on Qobuz)(it is clearer on this than the Porter track), and the first time she says "broken" you hear a crackle, and subsequently multiple times. hmm, faulty D90.. I also heard it (the same) at -20db, so not intersample overs either. (on both XLR and RCA outputs).
View attachment 72239

My problem may have just gone away! I managed to remember that I had set the ten band equaliser in Picoreplayer Audio Tweaks on the Pi4 USB server, which was great for tuning my in-room sound, cancelling that seems to have removed the issue. So, clean sound now (it was a server settings issue). The D90 is good.

 

[typericey]

I noticed that the D90 comes with a thinner USB cable, i.e. thinner than the cable that came with the D70. Wondering if this is a cause of concern with reliability, shielding noise, etc.

I'm thinking of replacing it with an Audioquest Pearl or even a cheap UGreen cable, just to ensure there are no issues with data transmission. (No I don't believe in USB cables changing the sound and all that snake oil.)

In the meantime, I put a ferrite bead on the cable. Not sure if it does anything, but I had one lying around so...

 

[hmscott]

There wasn't a issue with XLR connection right? The crackling? Maybe RCA only.

Right, I have no problems with XLR only.

RCA connections must be disconnected or I get that crackling noise in M/H Gain, and a High pitched tone in H Gain (with USB removed).

The crackling from USB only happens with USB connected with RCA only or RCA + XLR.

The high pitched tone in H Gain can only be distinguished apart from the crackling with USB disconnected with the D90 MQA / A90 connected with XLR + RCA.

Please give those configurations a try at your end to see if you can duplicate those two problems. Please add RCA to XLR first, then try RCA only.

 

[burma]

Right, I have no problems with XLR only.

RCA connections must be disconnected or I get that crackling noise in M/H Gain, and a High pitched tone in H Gain (with USB removed).

The crackling from USB only happens with USB connected with RCA only or RCA + XLR.

The high pitched tone in H Gain can only be distinguished apart from the crackling with USB disconnected with the D90 MQA / A90 connected with XLR + RCA.

Please give those configurations a try at your end to see if you can duplicate those two problems. Please add RCA to XLR first, then try RCA only.

Why don't you go XLR out from the A90 to new powered speakers? It's what I'm going to do, once my Adam Audio A5X monitors arrive next week.

 

[Hammer]

Hi, just if anyone’s using HQPlayer with the Topping D90 MQA with the latest firmware 1.24, seems using Default DAC bits In HQPlayer Settings produces and error. If I set to 32 bits, then it works fine...

 

[UCrazyKid]

I know the reply wasn't directed at me, but I'm on the fence if I should return the MQA and get a regular D90 instead. The Tidal MQA bug bothers me, and the OCD inside me wonders if this MQA unit is perhaps more prone to strange little things, whereas the regular D90 is more basic and solid. It also has the XU-216 vs the XU-208 in the regular D90, which in theory should be better, but no idea. The return and exchange process can be a pain - maybe I get a faulty D90, etc. Dunno. I may end up not even using MQA in 6 months.

@burma depending on where you purchased your D90, try reaching out to Apos Audio (US distributor of Topping) and see if they currently have any returned D90’s in stock. You could pick up one and compare it to the MQA before making your decision and sending one or the other back, or both back. You have 30 days with them.

 

[hmscott]

Why don't you go XLR out from the A90 to new powered speakers? It's what I'm going to do, once my Adam Audio A5X monitors arrive next week.

That would most likely work, but I've already bought the 1.5m RCA cable and picked the speakers - RCA only. So I'd need to change up both. Plus, whether now or down the road this RCA noise issue will come up again - either with me or at resale, so I might as well work it out now with John / Topping.

 

[ReaderZ]

Why don't you go XLR out from the A90 to new powered speakers? It's what I'm going to do, once my Adam Audio A5X monitors arrive next week.

Because you need to adjust volume pot every time you switch, and it's an analog pot, not easy to set volume the same every time. For my DX7 pro, I am using all out for speaker vol memory via XLR, and line out for A90 vol memory, via RCA. (XLR out and RCA out share the same vol memory but all out has it's own, I assume D90 is the same) So this way, it's one click of remote to switch.

Of course, I get to do this because I have no noise issue via RCA.

 

[AndyLu]

That would most likely work, but I've already bought the 1.5m RCA cable and picked the speakers - RCA only. So I'd need to change up both. Plus, whether now or down the road this RCA noise issue will come up again - either with me or at resale, so I might as well work it out now with John / Topping.

Why not try XLR to RCA converters ? You than can use the XLR output from the D90 to connect to the speakers.

 

[burma]

Because you need to adjust volume pot every time you switch, and it's an analog pot, not easy to set volume the same every time. For my DX7 pro, I am using all out for speaker vol memory via XLR, and line out for A90 vol memory, via RCA. (XLR out and RCA out share the same vol memory but all out has it's own, I assume D90 is the same) So this way, it's one click of remote to switch.

Of course, I get to do this because I have no noise issue via RCA.

I guess I don't get what you are trying to do - volume match output of headphone and speakers? Either way you have to adjust volume - either from D90 or A90. When I switch from headphone to pre/speaker on the A90, I adjust volume as needed - confused...Switch back to headphone, adjust volume as needed again. Unless you want to use the remote to adjust volume? Then yeah, if you want to use the remote, D90 out is best.

 

[ReaderZ]

I guess I don't get what you are trying to do - volume match output of headphone and speakers? Either way you have to adjust volume - either from D90 or A90. When I switch from headphone to pre/speaker on the A90, I adjust volume as needed - confused...Switch back to headphone, adjust volume as needed again. Unless you want to use the remote to adjust volume? Then yeah, if you want to use the remote, D90 out is best.

The point is with RCA to A90 and XLR to speaker, I do NOT need to adjust volume every time I switch.