VTV Hypex Ncore NC252MP (It's all Amir's fault)

[CDMC]

Can you post a picture of your received item? Also does your amp also have grey electrical tapw in the main ppwr connecto


Semantics, but "potentially dangerous" does not defame another manufacturer. MarchAudio is simply trying to help people. At least MarchAudio is giving help for wiring improvements out to people for FREE. Why attack the messenger and not the builder?



Can you post a picture of your received item? Also does your amp also have grey electrical tape wrapped around the main molex connector to the board?

Yes, I can post photos.




















Hint, try reading the thread from the beginning.

 

[Xulonn]

For $23 I have an entire wire and connector assembly coming from Ghent and for another $8, I will use high quality Neutrik face plate XLR's and correct the wiring. For the price invested, I am more than happy.

CDMC, I really like your attitude regarding this amplifier. I would do the same as you, and indeed, I was seriously considering the purchase of a pair of VTV amplifiers. VTV amplifiers really are, as I said once before in this thread, simply high-quality Ghent amplifier cases and wiring kits for a module that is not sold by the manufacturer (Hypex) to the DIY market. But my endorsement of VTV is not a blanket one. I would recommend VTV amplifiers only to buyers like you who are capable of examining the wiring (with a camera and assistance from the real experts here at ASR) and correcting shoddy assembly. It's really the only "authorized" path to get a basic, no extra features Hypex NC25xNC amplifier module in one of the really excellent Ghent cases.

While following the discussion of some issues with your particular VTV/Ghent/Hypex amplifier, I went back to searching for a Hypex power amplifier with three channels in a single chassis rather than a stereo plus a monaural VTV amp. This would be a more logical solution for me, and revisiting the Nord website took me to their three-channel NC252MP plus NC250MP amplifier, which would cost $990. This is only $100 more than a pair of limited-feature VTV amplifiers, although Nord's shipping charge from the UK to my package forwarder in Miami is another $100.

The Nord amplifier comes with a 12v trigger circuit, module sequencing, startup muting to eliminate startup clicks, and switchable XLR and RCA inputs. It has Just enough features to entice me. (I could probably save a bit with a similar Audiophonics custom three-channel amp, but the Nord has a few more features and seems to be a perfect fit for my application.)

This thread has run its course, and I can think of nothing of significance to be further discussed.

 

[Hemi-Demon]

Yes, I can post photos.

Hint, try reading the thread from the beginning.

Sorry I thought a second person received a complete unit, not the OP, such as yourself. I wanted to see a second unit, that maybe was better built inside. My bad.

 

[CDMC]

CDMC, I really like your attitude regarding this amplifier. I would do the same as you, and indeed, I was seriously considering the purchase of a pair of VTV amplifiers. VTV amplifiers really are, as I said once before in this thread, simply high-quality Ghent amplifier cases and wiring kits for a module that is not sold by the manufacturer (Hypex) to the DIY market. But my endorsement of VTV is not a blanket one. I would recommend VTV amplifiers only to buyers like you who are capable of examining the wiring (with a camera and assistance from the real experts here at ASR) and correcting shoddy assembly. It's really the only "authorized" path to get a basic, no extra features Hypex NC25xNC amplifier module in one of the really excellent Ghent cases.

While following the discussion of some issues with your particular VTV/Ghent/Hypex amplifier, I went back to searching for a Hypex power amplifier with three channels in a single chassis rather than a stereo plus a monaural VTV amp. This would be a more logical solution for me, and revisiting the Nord website took me to their three-channel NC252MP plus NC250MP amplifier, which would cost $990. This is only $100 more than a pair of limited-feature VTV amplifiers, although Nord's shipping charge from the UK to my package forwarder in Miami is another $100.

View attachment 62884

The Nord amplifier comes with a 12v trigger circuit, module sequencing, startup muting to eliminate startup clicks, and switchable XLR and RCA inputs. It has Just enough features to entice me. (I could probably save a bit with a similar Audiophonics custom three-channel amp, but the Nord has a few more features and seems to be a perfect fit for my application.)

This thread has run its course, and I can think of nothing of significance to be further discussed.

I agree. Nord seems aware of the Pin 1 issue and appears to be working on a solution that fixes it while allowing both XLR and RCA connectors. When you look at it, the market splits up nicely:

1) VTV is offering the basic low cost unit for not much more than the price a complete kit would cost if available. I would have bought a kit if they were available. The work I need to do to make it correct is minimal, and but for Pin 2 and 3 being inverted would have been perfectly fine. I know the Pin 1 wiring is not technically correct, but also that with the exception of March, virtually every other manufacture is doing the same thing. Audiophonics also picks up the value end, but I didn't like their case design as much.
2) Nord offers the next step up, with a wide range of options that you can pick and choose.
3) March offers the full hand built and tested product with their own cases, testing to confirm their layouts and implementation are as good as possible, and careful assembly.

I have left out some other manufactures such as Apollon Audio, as they seem to similar to Nord, but more expensive. NAD has a great product, but is much higher priced as it is sold through dealers. Finally, VTV is going higher end builds, but given we haven't seen the inside, we don't know if the assembly quality is better.

Again, I am happy with the purchase. I think that I received fair value for the purchase. VW builds multiple different cars from the same chassis, labeled as Seat, VW, Audi, or Porsche depending on how it is finished. While the chassis is the same, the finished product is far different and a VW Touareg is not a Cayenne, nor is it a Q7, but it is less expensive. I view this similarly.

 

[CDMC]

Sorry I thought a second person received a complete unit, not the OP, such as yourself. I wanted to see a second unit, that maybe was better built inside. My bad.

No worries. I am extra snarky when I am posting from my phone while waiting in line to go into the market.

 

[CDMC]

Just to bring this back to the original topic. I did spend some time last night swapping the amp back and forth with the Parasound. In my highly imperfect sighted conditions, the VTV is more open sounding and lacking in grain than the Parasound. Whether this would be audible under DBT, I don't know. I also don't know if the Parasound is in spec, or out like Amir's test sample appeared to be.

 

[March Audio]

Yes I have read that and again a bit much, but that’s my opinion. For another manufacture to say that the XLR ground not being connected could be dangerous is ridiculous. .

Reb

I put you on ignore probably over a year ago fir this sort of nonsense.

My comments were clearly referring to the lack of mains ground/earth connection on a different unit in a different thread and snipping things out of context is just deliberate misrepresentation. Stop being a prat. Back on ignore.

 

[Ron Texas]

A molehill becomes a mountain. If, in fact, there is anything wrong with the OP's unit, I hope the manufacturer is aware of this thread and is able to remedy the problem. By the way, does any of this cause an audible problem? As for the rest of you, try to act like grown ups.

 

[March Audio]

It doesn't appear he is defending it with a fervor, he is parsing out the difference between a safety issue and a quality control issue. Is the quality the best, no. But for the price, it is reasonable. We have seen worse work in far higher priced items. For $23 I have an entire wire and connector assembly coming from Ghent and for another $8, I will use high quality Neutrik face plate XLR's and correct the wiring. For the price invested, I am more than happy.

I know this will look like I'm just attacking a competitor, but the criticisms are valid. It's only reasonable if you know about the problems (most consumers won't) then have access to the right information, the skills and the time and interest to rectify.

Using incorrect connectors, and having to hold them together with tape as a result because they don't fit. (BTW do the pins properly fit the mating female receptical and make good contact?). Then wiring them up wrong with incorrect polarity to my mind goes a little beyond just "not the best quality"

 

[March Audio]

A molehill becomes a mountain. If, in fact, there is anything wrong with the OP's unit, I hope the manufacturer is aware of this thread and is able to remedy the problem. By the way, does any of this cause an audible problem? As for the rest of you, try to act like grown ups.

Yes it can.

 

[Trouble Maker]

So, I don't get why people aren't making a bigger deal of the build quality. Using the wrong connectors and then using using duct-tape to make a friction fit is just pure hot garbage. If you look at that picture, there is actually a second connector behind that one that is also like this. While I understand the point of this being built to as low a price as possible, and it essentially being a 'kit' that otherwise isn't available, it's not being sold as such. It is being sold as a finished product and most people will use it that way.

 

[Ron Texas]

Yes.

And how does that audible problem manifest? What I see is the least expensive Hypex amp on the market. The problem is widespread and can be fixed by moving 2 wires, and it's shipped from the US. Perhaps you are about to become uncompetitive.

 

[March Audio]

And how does that audible problem manifest? What I see is the least expensive Hypex amp on the market. The problem is widespread and can be fixed by moving 2 wires, and it's shipped from the US. Perhaps you are about to become uncompetitive.

Ground loops, hum and noise from computer sources for a start. Poorly mating signal connectors will have fairly obvious issues.

So, yes you can rectify it. Does that make it OK?

Ron there are different markets. Some customers are interested in lowest price, some prefer correctly built and higher quality. I have always stated I have no interest in a race to the bottom trying to go for the lowest price. Clearly, as seen here, it has consequences. So no its not actually what I consider a competing product. The OP asked for an opinion, as did someone else in another thread. At least this one had the mains earth connected .

Also, just as another comment, knowing the wholesale price of the components I have a very good idea what sort of margin they are making by selling at such a low price. All I will say is that is its a risky business strategy to follow, especially with low volume sales .

 

[CDMC]

Perhaps you are about to become uncompetitive.

This comment is just mean spirited. March has been nothing but kind, providing assistance on a product that is not manufactured by him, and in fact a product that is arguably, directly in competition with his. He has provided similar help to others as well as a great deal of general information in countless other threads. To attack him is really hitting below the belt.

 

[CDMC]

I know this will look like I'm just attacking a competitor, but the criticisms are valid. It's only reasonable if you have access to the right information, the skills and the time and interest to rectify.

Using incorrect connectors, and having to hold them together with tape as a result because they don't fit. (BTW do the pins properly fit the mating female receptical and make good contact?). Then wiring them up wrong with incorrect polarity to my mind goes a little beyond just "not the best quality"

Your comments are anything but an attack. The fit is good, but I have ordered replacement plugs and wires from Ghent so it fits properly when I change those, put in new XLR jacks and fix the grounding. As it sits, I don't hear any ground loops or any noise for that matter when the volume is turned all the way up and I am next to the speakers (with the caveat that my speakers are 85db/w efficient and it could be an issue in another system).

 

[March Audio]

Your comments are anything but an attack. The fit is good, but I have ordered replacement plugs and wires from Ghent so it fits properly when I change those, put in new XLR jacks and fix the grounding. As it sits, I don't hear any ground loops or any noise for that matter when the volume is turned all the way up and I am next to the speakers (with the caveat that my speakers are 85db/w efficient and it could be an issue in another system).

Cool

Having this pin1 wiring issue doesn't mean that anyone will guaranteed suffer an audible problem. It just increases the chances. We see quite a number of threads here referring to hum and computer noises.

 

[rebbiputzmaker]

A molehill becomes a mountain. If, in fact, there is anything wrong with the OP's unit, I hope the manufacturer is aware of this thread and is able to remedy the problem. By the way, does any of this cause an audible problem? As for the rest of you, try to act like grown ups.

I actually asked that question has anyone actually had any problems due to grounding etc. not just with this amp, but any other other products that they own? It will be interesting to hear some real life problems if any not just speculation. Personally I have not had any issues, we are talking about high-level signals. Low-level stuff, microphones, tone arms etc. totally different.

 

[rebbiputzmaker]

Reb

I put you on ignore probably over a year ago fir this sort of nonsense.

My comments were clearly referring to the lack of mains ground/earth connection on a different unit in a different thread and snipping things out of context is just deliberate misrepresentation. Stop being a prat. Back on ignore.

Just be clear, nothing taken out of context and I didn’t bring up the other thread the other gentleman did. The quote was posted in its entirety, if that’s not what you meant no problem like I said I didn’t really mention it at all nor do I really care much, other than posted it for accuracy.

 

[rebbiputzmaker]

Cool

Having this pin1 wiring issue doesn't mean that anyone will guaranteed suffer an audible problem. It just increases the chances. We see quite a number of threads here referring to hum and computer noises.

As Don mentioned to be accurate it can work both ways. There may be issues with different equipment and how they interact. Best practices is usually best, but nothing is perfect.

How does computer noise manifesting itself in this situation? I do not see a relationship at all, am I missing something? Thank you

 

[CDMC]

As Don mentioned to be accurate it can work both ways. There may be issues with different equipment and how they interact. Best practices is usually best, but nothing is perfect.

How does computer noise manifesting itself in this situation? I do not see a relationship at all, am I missing something? Thank you

I am guessing, but computers tend to emit a lot of RF and have a lot of electrical noise. I could also see the issue being worse for those using a dac built into their PC. In my case, I use an outboard USB Dac so don’t have that potential issue.