Technical Debt & Your System

[watchnerd]

As someone who works in the software industry, the concept of technical debt is one that is routinely talked about.

Without getting too far into the weeds, the basic concept has to do with the difficulty of moving to new technological systems because the technical limitations of past decisions prevent easily moving forward without throwing everything out and starting over.

(Note: the metaphor is not perfect, as software systems have a more flexible range of possible outcomes than physical systems, as well as time to market concerns, but the basic concept carries merit to other disciplines)

When I audit my own systems, I get the following list of technical debt, with both the cost and price to fix:

1. Turntable & Vinyl

Cons
-Will always need a playback chain capable of native analog input, A/D conversion, or both
-Need phono stage
-Big, unportable, easy to damage either the media (LPs) or the cartridge
-Sturdy playback platform
-Cats

Price to fix:
-Extreme: digitize all the vinyl and/or eliminate turntable
-Eliminate cats

2. Passive Speakers

Cons
-Passive speakers + random amp not as optimized as active speaker + active crossover + purpose suited amp

Price to fix:
-Financially negligible: selling all existing passive speakers offsets costs of active replacements, especially when electronics are included
-Loss of "audiophile cred" as active speakers still not well-regarded by many
-Less flexibility

3. Separate Power Amps

Cons:
-More boxes
-More cables
-Energy waste

Price to fix:
-Financially negligible: can sell existing amps if move to all active speakers
-Loss of "audiophile cred", can't post amp porn pics
-Less flexibility

4. Listening Room

Cons:
-Not fully acoustically treated
-Room nodes and Schroeder frequency unchangeable without house remodel
-Will always be the weak link in the chain regardless of upstream changes to source components and speakers

Price to fix:
-Incremental improvements with more acoustic treatments and DRC
-Divorce, sell house, start life over with acoustically optimized house and wife

5. Network Connectivity

Cons
-Intermittent network QoS issues can cause issues with lossless streaming

Price to fix:
-Modest: implement new mesh network or go all ethernet for streaming chain


Those are my biggies.

What are yours?

 

[DonH56]

I tossed most of my LPs ages ago and have not gotten my TT out of its storage box since setting up my new system.

I suggest adding "Benefits" to your list (Cons is Cost).

Here is one of mine:

6. Moving to streaming source material via Internet and/or NAS.

Cons:
- May need to deal with network connectivity issues
- May need a dedicated server or decent RAID NAS system and connection to your system (I use a SONOS:Connect)
- Many hours ripping previous source material (CDs, LPs; this may also have a SW cost if you choose dBPowerAmp or similar)
- Subscription cost if you choose an Internet (or satellite) service
- May need a controller (which could be your phone)

Benefits:
- Play what you want, when you want
- Control from "anywhere" (PC, cell phone, and some AVRs include everything you need)
- Ability to pause, restart, re-order songs as you please
- Less time spent handling physical media, more time listening and enjoying

Price to fix:
- Depends on what computer, network, and audio components you have now; may range from essentially "free" to several thousand dollars
- Lots of time if you have a large collection of physical media, e.g. time spent ripping CDs to FLAC files or whatever

 

[watchnerd]

I tossed most of my LPs ages ago and have not gotten my TT out of its storage box since setting up my new system.

I suggest adding "Benefits" to your list (Cons is Cost).

Here is one of mine:

6. Moving to streaming source material via Internet and/or NAS.

Cost:
- May need to deal with network connectivity issues
- May need a dedicated server or decent RAID NAS system and connection to your system (I use a SONOS:Connect)
- Many hours ripping previous source material (CDs, LPs; this may also have a SW cost if you choose dBPowerAmp or similar)
- Subscription cost if you choose an Internet (or satellite) service
- May need a controller (which could be your phone)

Benefits:
- Play what you want, when you want
- Control from "anywhere" (PC, cell phone, and some AVRs include everything you need)
- Ability to pause, restart, re-order songs as you please
- Less time spent handling physical media, more time listening and enjoying

Price to fix:
- Depends on what computer, network, and audio components you have now; may range from essentially "free" to several thousand dollars
- Lots of time if you have a large collection of physical media, e.g. time spent ripping CDs to FLAC files or whatever

This is a good one.

Luckily for me, I already tackled this: ripped everything to lossless, store on a RAID NAS, have a Mac Mini operating as a Roon server, endpoints of either AppleTV or Raspberry PI devices, all controlled via anything - tablet, phone, computer.

 

[watchnerd]

Also edited my original entry to change cons to cost (cost is the 'debt' metaphor, but may be easier to just say cons).

 

[RayDunzl]

I still spin CD's which I buy cheaply. It's a hobby. No Analog at all at the moment.
I have enough networking that I don't use musically. If I want to hear something different I have an HDRadio and 3 good non-commercial stations nearby. Save $240/yr dissing Tidal or other streaming choices.
I'm happy with my speakers upgraded by "room correction" DSP.
The room is what it is, so, no change planned there.

If there was a biggie it was:

Cost:
Power hungry Class A amps and preamp (270W idle draw for the set). They add to the Air Conditioning load in the warm 7 months.

Price to fix:
Investigated Solar briefly, instead parked money in shares of local Power Utility for dividends to pay entire electric bill (instant gratification vs long-term Solar payback)

Unexpected "Keep Amps" Benefit:
Made surprise $20,000 capital gain on shares which more than paid for whole system upon takeover by Canadians.

 

[watchnerd]

Cost:
Power hungry Class A amps and preamp (270W idle draw). They add to the AirConditioning load in the warm 7 months.

I wonder if 20th century-style Class A amps will be viewed more like vintage cars in the future (classic, collectible, valuable) or more like old black & white TVs (heavy, obsolete, wasteful).

 

[Blumlein 88]

I wonder if 20th century-style Class A amps will be viewed more like vintage cars in the future (classic, collectible, valuable) or more like old black & white TVs (heavy, obsolete, wasteful).

Yes they will.

 

[watchnerd]

Yes they will.

 

[FrantzM]

Like The thread even more the OP...

Have moved to Digital in a way I hadn't thought possible. About 2~3 years went in to a TT phase because of LPs I "inherited" ... Invested a good amount in TT, Arm, Cart, Phono Stage ( All audiophile creditable) .. Have discovered that I have not spun an LP for more than 6 months!!! Will keep the rig for the sake of digitizing but find the idea of buying a good ADC wasteful, perhaps I'll rent one...

Building too slowly a new house and have an area in the yard for Listening room... Due to lack of time and priorities ... Not one wall in the listening room is standing. Foundations are ready though .. Still trying to figure out if this is to be an addition to the house architecturally or a man cave, external, separated... tension and conflict producing separate thing/room/apt.

Call me a recovering audiophile if you want ... I would like to ditch many audiophile pretenses but do not find for example the much talked about Mackie 824, that good sounding.. preferred to it the LS50 driven by Burmester 911... Tests were performed with same front end and roughly level matched .. / Thinking about going Integrated but the audiophile tug is hard .. Do I keep the Bada and go DarTzeel, Gryphon Diablo or Boulder or Pass or Burmester integrated? What about a Devialet? Or just go JBL M2 system with the Crown amps and be done .. Talk about complete loss of decades of slowly and patiently amassed audiophile creds!
Treatment? I am as confused as I was 20 years ago about room treatments. I thought I understood what it took to make some of it work.. Discovering that it is not as straightforward as i would like to be ...
Subwoofers. I am a total convert of the benefit of multiple subwoofers.. Do I go IB or normal closed box or do I go Danley Tapered horns... Pricing is "normal" for the Danley DTS ; performance is brutal ( >120 dB at 20 Hz with no EQ) and I don't mind using different subs in a multi-subs ... But I like IB although their audiophile creds is nill but they are clearly superior to any commercial boxes so.. but they are not movable .. You build them and it is done in the room and I want multiple .. Logistics are not evident nor are cost.
For speakers it will be horn but where do I go from there. I don't have time these days to go around auditioning things. A welcome lack of time but I am often left wondering how some things sound. I've made a conscious effort to audition as many systems as possible but find myself more often than ot listening to my friends orthodox systems .. Orthodox audiophiles some of them have been weaned away from cables and tweaks but will still swear by their tube gears and their audiophile shrines..

but I know it is going to be Horns...

 

[watchnerd]

Call me a recovering audiophile if you want ... I would like to ditch many audiophile pretenses but do not find for example the much talked about Mackie 824, that good sounding.. preferred to it the LS50 driven by Burmester 911...

If you like the LS50, skip the Burmester 911 and go for the LS50 Wireless -- all active, built-in DAC, volume control, source-switching, etc.

Add a miniDSP OpenDRC-DI for digital-domain in/out room correction and be done.

If I didn't have the technical debt of LPs, I'd seriously consider doing it. I still might.

 

[watchnerd]

but I know it is going to be Horns...

Horns make sense if you have to use tiny output amps.

But in the 21st century you don't have to.

Unless by 'horn' you mean a waveguide, which is a different story...

 

[FrantzM]

I preferred the LS50 but this is not my speaker of choice. Big horns such as the JBL 4367 , M2, K2 or equivalent are what I have in mind...

 

[watchnerd]

I preferred the LS50 but this is not my speaker of choice. Big horns such as the JBL 4367 , M2, K2 or equivalent are what I have in mind...

If I had the room in my house, I would definitely go for the M2 and all the electronics matched to it.

I think it's incredibly hard to beat at any price, and at $25k a relative bargain.

 

[FrantzM]

Horns make sense if you have to use tiny output amps.

But in the 21st century you don't have to.

Unless by 'horn' you mean a waveguide, which is a different story...

Have the tendency to bunch them up I know they're different. IMO directivity plays a greater role in what we perceive than given credit for. I like the views and works of Earl Geddes but haven't heard any of his speakers. I like the approach taken by Harman with the JBL M2 etc.
I frankly find the ability of horns to go from ultra soft to ear bleeding loud more in line with real music. Enjoyed that recently from an audition of JBL DD 67000 with powerful Levinson Amps in NY. The effect was startling .. the kind of thing you don't expect from a stereo system.

 

[watchnerd]

Have the tendency to bunch them up I know they're different. IMO directivity plays a greater role in what we perceive than given credit for. I like the views and works of Earl Geddes but haven't heard any of his speakers. I like the approach taken by Harman with the JBL M2 etc.
I frankly find the ability of horns to go from ultra soft to ear bleeding loud more in line with real music. Enjoyed that recently from an audition of JBL DD 67000 with powerful Levinson Amps in NY. The effect was startling .. the kind of thing you don't expect from a stereo system.

It sounds like you have zero technical debt and can you just get what you want in the room you want.

Awesome position to be in.

 

[fas42]

Amusingly, since talking about active monitors elsewhere - I tried a Mackie 824 when sampling what was available, was not impressed, and managed to kill one of the demo units in the shop ...

 

[fas42]

Since I never went down analogue or tube roads, since starting to take music reproduction seriously, the level of technical debt is very low - still playing CDs, on as simple a system that I can get away with, through stock standard solid state circuitry, and highly conventional speakers. The ability to play from "ultra soft to ear bleeding loud" is a function of system competence - and the latter is where my debt lies, if anywhere. Luckily, what I've learnt over the years has always added to the account, there's almost nothing that has been discarded along the way.

I will have to bite the bullet at some stage, and get a music server arrangement happening - as a backup for my CDs if nothing else. But this is straightforward, computer stuff - no prob's on the technical side, but it means that I will have to explore the subtleties of how to drive a DAC well from this source, something I haven't tackled yet.

 

[Fitzcaraldo215]

I am very much with DonH. I do not listen to anything other than what is sourced from my NAS via my PC, which is mostly SACD/BD rips and Downloads all in hi Rez 5/7.1. I have thousands of albums, both audio and A/V, accessable and selectable from my easy chair by browsing on my iPad. I do not think any "debt" is owed my thousands of LPs collected since the late 50's and even CD's collected since 1983, neither of which I even think of playing anymore, but which still line the shelves in my listening room. The equipment to play them is in a box which has been unopened for years.

Those older technologies and the stereo recordings using them have all been easily and clearly superseded in terms of sonics. There is definitely a time to push old stuff aside and start over. Sooner or later, we all must move on. The good news is that newer technologies are even more "cat friendly" than the old. And, Zoey, my Maltese lap dog and best friend, really loves the sound.

 

[watchnerd]

Interesting that most of you guys seem to be focusing mostly on the LPs vs CDs vs NAS angle.

IMHO, the use of passive speakers and separate amps is just as big of a debt.

Not from a convenience POV, but from a performance POV.

 

[watchnerd]

I am very much with DonH. I do not listen to anything other than what is sourced from my NAS via my PC, which is mostly SACD/BD rips and Downloads all in hi Rez 5/7.1.

All your music is in surround?