Review and Measurements of Sabaj D5 DAC & Amp

[philipjdall]

Hey folks, long time lurker but have just registered as I'm hoping to get some advice...

Based on Armin's review I went out and bought myself a D5 (like many of us I think).

My setup is as follows: Roon - Ropieee USB - D5 - Balanced Audeze LCD 2

At the start of listening it sounds great! BUT - and it's a big but - I find it very fatiguing on my ears after half an hour or so. I think it's the very clean nature of it and the treble is a touch harsh to my ears... I've read through (most of) this thread and have seen a few reports of this (although not many) and some suggestions of trying a preamp or separate amp. I'm not looking to reopen the debate on measured figures vs subjective listening opinions, but before I go out and buy something else that doesn't solve my problem I thought I'd ask on here for suggestions.

What should I try to soften the sound and make it a bit warmer?

I have been looking at tube amps but then again I'm really not sure if that is a good or a bad idea. Or perhaps one of the THX amps - but if they are really clean themselves will that really soften the treble?

FWIW My previous dac is a NFB 11.28, and while I'm well aware that we don't like audio-gd on here I actually quite like the way it sounds... Maybe because I'm used to it, but it definitely is a little warmer (but not as transparent). I've also owned/still own some AK players which are quite warm, so maybe that's just what I like?

Any help greatly appreciated,
Phil

 

[maxxevv]

FWIW My previous dac is a NFB 11.28, and while I'm well aware that we don't like audio-gd on here I actually quite like the way it sounds... Maybe because I'm used to it, but it definitely is a little warmer (but not as transparent). I've also owned/still own some AK players which are quite warm, so maybe that's just what I like?

Any help greatly appreciated,
Phil

The issue really is the NFB 11.28 you were using previously. It probably has roll-off in the treble region (the DAC 19 measurements show that) that you are too used to. I would suggest to try a little bit of equalizer tuning for the shot term.

After a while, you will probably find the Audio-GD a little veiled and perhaps muffled.

 

[philipjdall]

TBH I never had the audio-gd that long so I doubt it's that... and totally agree it is far from perfect! But this is a bigger issue as I have spent far more time listening to AK dap's (SR15 at the moment) and that also doesn't have the harshness I talk about.

Or are you saying that all well measured dac's will be harsh on treble and I must just live with it? Seems crazy.

 

[maxxevv]

Or are you saying that all well measured dac's will be harsh on treble and I must just live with it? Seems crazy.

No, its just that "harshness" / "brightness" is relative.

Its like asking an Alaskan Inuit coming from Yellow Knife if the winter in Idaho is cold and conversely asking an Mexican if the summer in Seattle is hot.

 

[philipjdall]

Nice analogy, but no matter how long that Inuit spends in a hot climate it's highly likely he'll always be yearning for the cold - people adapt less than we think. I grew up in Africa, spent 13 years in the UK and recently moved to a warmer climate as I couldn't get used to it! It may be relative, but doesn't mean we'll adapt.

The fact is I don't like it like it is – what can I do to soften the sound before I give up and sell it?

 

[BDWoody]

I'm not looking to reopen the debate on measured figures vs subjective listening opinions, but before I go out and buy something else that doesn't sound...

The fact is I don't like it like it is – what can I do to soften the sound before I give up and sell it?

Welcome to the forum!

You aren't required to like transparency.

Since you don't seem to want to go over what is audible and what isn't based on measurements what exactly are you looking for?

There are effects boxes with DSP you could use to tailor the sound, but if transparent = harsh to you, and you don't want to try the suggestions of basically letting yours ears ' burn in' to the new level of clarity, or using the tone control, or anything else mentioned so far, not sure what else there is.

The problem for you may be that without understanding what you are hearing, you are likely to find the same issue with any competent DAC, since they will all be effectively transparent (harsh).

I hope you get to where you can enjoy it more!

 

[maxxevv]

You're missing the point.

Its not about adapting.
Its about your relative point of reference.

I live in an environment that's generally above 25 degrees Celsius all year round. To me the mild weather in San Francisco is generally chilly. But I was once dropped into Yellowstone in the midst of winter at -20 degree Celsius for work, I still got used to the weather there in under 3 days.

 

[philipjdall]

Sure, maybe I am... But if it tires my ears surely something has to adapt/evolve? I can't listen to it for longer than half an hour, this is not an issue i've ever had on any other rig. What to do? Like I said, I'm going to sell it if i can't fix it, so really I'm looking for a fix.

 

[philipjdall]

Since you don't seem to want to go over what is audible and what isn't based on measurements what exactly are you looking for?

Lol, way to jump on me!

The point is I do want to go on measurements which is why i bought a D5 and way I'm asking the question here. But it still needs to sound good to my ears. The dac is one link in the chain and I'm just wondering what impact a better amp or separate preamp would make. Or using a tube etc. I don't know - which is why I'm asking. I'm sure my ears need to 'burn in' but equally I'm not going to sit there with my ears bleeding while I could be enjoying the music.

Or maybe I'm asking on the wrong forum?

 

[ahofer]

Lol, way to jump on me!

The point is I do want to go on measurements which is why i bought a D5 and way I'm asking the question here. But it still needs to sound good to my ears. The dac is one link in the chain and I'm just wondering what impact a better amp or separate preamp would make. Or using a tube etc. I don't know - which is why I'm asking. I'm sure my ears need to 'burn in' but equally I'm not going to sit there with my ears bleeding while I could be enjoying the music.

Or maybe I'm asking on the wrong forum?

you use Roon? Use the EQ in Roon to adjust the high frequency response to your tastes. The “harshness” is there, since it doesn’t appear to be distortion (based on measurements of your gear-unless yours is broken).

 

[BDWoody]

Lol, way to jump on me!

The point is I do want to go on measurements which is why i bought a D5 and way I'm asking the question here. But it still needs to sound good to my ears. The dac is one link in the chain and I'm just wondering what impact a better amp or separate preamp would make. Or using a tube etc. I don't know - which is why I'm asking. I'm sure my ears need to 'burn in' but equally I'm not going to sit there with my ears bleeding while I could be enjoying the music.

Or maybe I'm asking on the wrong forum?

No intention to come across that way...apologies if it read more harshly than intended.

If someone starts wearing glasses and doesn't like the way everyone looks, I wouldn't know quite what to say either.

There are lots of ways to play with the EQ through some kind of DSP. Rather than try find a DAC or preamp or amp that adds color...always, and on everything, I would prefer to make all of those elements as transparent as possible, then deal with what gets to my ears through said DSP.

No offense meant!

 

[Harry1973]

Hey folks, long time lurker but have just registered as I'm hoping to get some advice...

Based on Armin's review I went out and bought myself a D5 (like many of us I think).

My setup is as follows: Roon - Ropieee USB - D5 - Balanced Audeze LCD 2

At the start of listening it sounds great! BUT - and it's a big but - I find it very fatiguing on my ears after half an hour or so. I think it's the very clean nature of it and the treble is a touch harsh to my ears... I've read through (most of) this thread and have seen a few reports of this (although not many) and some suggestions of trying a preamp or separate amp. I'm not looking to reopen the debate on measured figures vs subjective listening opinions, but before I go out and buy something else that doesn't solve my problem I thought I'd ask on here for suggestions.

What should I try to soften the sound and make it a bit warmer?

I have been looking at tube amps but then again I'm really not sure if that is a good or a bad idea. Or perhaps one of the THX amps - but if they are really clean themselves will that really soften the treble?

FWIW My previous dac is a NFB 11.28, and while I'm well aware that we don't like audio-gd on here I actually quite like the way it sounds... Maybe because I'm used to it, but it definitely is a little warmer (but not as transparent). I've also owned/still own some AK players which are quite warm, so maybe that's just what I like?

Any help greatly appreciated,
Phil

Have you tried different filters, like slow-minimum?
I have also Sabaj D5 and experienced some of the same thing on long 5 h listening (fast linear). Anyways, today I use fast linear. As sometimes happens when one buys a new toy, there is an interest to tweek other hifi stuff also. I moved my speakers a bit, did some light acusting (mainly for upper register, for early reflections and such) and found slightly more even bass responce. Everything sounds great. -I have always been a semi-objective when it comes to audio. I like resolution and I need to enjoy music but want to avoid bs. So, finaly I desided to do a blind test with help of my wife. Levels matched best I can, with identical rca cabels to int.amp. I could not honesly tell very different dacs reliably apart. Node 2 was perhaps statistically more noticable. Chord Mojo, Audionet Art V2 Cd, Sabaj D5 were lost to me. Could honestly not tell them apart. Then again there is a "big" difference when I listen to them now. I have always felt that some people here keep shouting for blind test because they just dont hear stuff. I have pretty good system and have listen to it for almost 20 years. So, even if some of this extreme objective stuff seems silly, I would recommend people to give a some sort of blind test a chance. No need to report it but for your own fun. I dont worry about dacs no more.

 

[Lotus97]

Sure, maybe I am... But if it tires my ears surely something has to adapt/evolve? I can't listen to it for longer than half an hour, this is not an issue i've ever had on any other rig. What to do? Like I said, I'm going to sell it if i can't fix it, so really I'm looking for a fix.

You will need a different headphone amp, D5 amp just doesn't have the dynamic juice to cover the low-end freq spectrum for those hifi headphone cans, leaving you exposed with high freq/treble, dont bother messing with the EQ. It is still a solid headphone amp, its just not suitable for all headphones out there.

I think you are better off not using balanced output with D5 and those headphones, try using unbalanced.

 

[philipjdall]

Hi all, lots of really helpful responses here so thanks very much

TBH I’d always thought the best way to do things was to try and get as close as possible through hardware and only then look a DSP, but your method makes perfect sense too. And don’t worry, no offence taken

On the amp suggestion, I had been wondering if this was the case as I know the amp in the d5 isn’t as good as the dac. So what amp should I look at? Will the JDS Atom do the job or am I better off with one of the THX amps?

 

[ohtoulouz]

Hi all, lots of really helpful responses here so thanks very much

TBH I’d always thought the best way to do things was to try and get as close as possible through hardware and only then look a DSP, but your method makes perfect sense too. And don’t worry, no offence taken

On the amp suggestion, I had been wondering if this was the case as I know the amp in the d5 isn’t as good as the dac. So what amp should I look at? Will the JDS Atom do the job or am I better off with one of the THX amps?

Atom has no balanced input/output. Though you could drive your LCD2 unbalanced with an adapter. When I tried the D5 (DAC) with another amp through SE line output, sound was poor: maybe my other amps were not so good (Micromega and Lehmann Audio Linear), maybe D5 SE line output is not so good. Atom and THX amps are very good, but what if D5 line output is not?

 

[RickSanchez]

If anyone on this thread finds this helpful, here's a comparison of the Sabaj D5 vs. the Topping DX7 Pro. Both DAC/amps measure extremely well.

• https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-comparison-sabaj-d5-vs-topping-dx7-pro.9457/

 

[NemoReborn]

hi guys , I currently use the sabaj d5 ... love it so far , but i dont understand the volume knob ... i can up and down volume with the remote , but dsnt work with the knob !?

it worked when i first plugged it in tho ...

any1 experienced this also?

 

[zym1010]

hi guys , I currently use the sabaj d5 ... love it so far , but i dont understand the volume knob ... i can up and down volume with the remote , but dsnt work with the knob !?

it worked when i first plugged it in tho ...

any1 experienced this also?

maybe try upgrading to the latest firmware

 

[NemoReborn]

Ran into the same issue. I think it also happens when you restart the app. You have to go fiddle with the settings. I still get pops whenever I start a new track..

I found a solution to this ... but but .. cant remember what i did ... but this happened to me all the time with Tidal ...ill come back to you

 

[NemoReborn]

maybe try upgrading to the latest firmware

there is nothing at all on their website... regarding firmware