New firmware did come today - is it bit perfect ?
-
WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!
WiiM Pro Plus Streamer Review
- Thread starter amirm
- Start date
Well, here is a measurement taken at the digital out of an ATV after sample rate conversion to 48KHz.
Apple TV 3'rd Generation - AirPlay measurements over TOSLINK
I have a couple of modern ATVs and they pass 24bit audio over hdmi through to a wiim pro plus and out to a DAC that reports a 24 bit lock. the ATV gen 3 Model A1469 does the same thing over optical and hdmi passed through the Wiim over hdmi reporting 24bit crossed over or directly to the end DAC...
audiosciencereview.com
THD+N in the digital domain of (the worst case test with 88KHz source) = -134dB
With 44.1kHz, THD+N was -139.5dB
It is really difficult to see how the sample rate conversion is having an audible effect at all - let alone "very poor sounding" as you stated above.
So, now - over to you. How about you prove you can hear what you say you can with a properly controlled blind test?
Ball is (once again) in your court.
Thanks for measurements for the old Apple tv3.Well, here is a measurement taken at the digital out of an ATV after sample rate conversion to 48KHz.
Apple TV 3'rd Generation - AirPlay measurements over TOSLINK
I have a couple of modern ATVs and they pass 24bit audio over hdmi through to a wiim pro plus and out to a DAC that reports a 24 bit lock. the ATV gen 3 Model A1469 does the same thing over optical and hdmi passed through the Wiim over hdmi reporting 24bit crossed over or directly to the end DAC...
THD+N in the digital domain of (the worst case test with 88KHz source) = -134dB
With 44.1kHz, THD+N was -139.5dB
It is really difficult to see how the sample rate conversion is having an audible effect at all - let alone "very poor sounding" as you stated above.
So, now - over to you. How about you prove you can hear what you say you can with a properly controlled blind test?
Ball is (once again) in your court.
We are talking about Apple TV 4K, a much newer model that dont have AirPlay 1 or toslink output. One must use lossy airplay 2 ( 256 Kbit/s ) to cast the sound to the apple tv 4k and take the sound out of it through hdmi out. Not a very practical or good sounding solution for lossless 44.1 kHz material.
Last edited:
Can you show some measurements to back up this statement ?
Just upgraded , time to sleep now
bobster
Member
I've seen forum posts (like this) before, saying that Airplay 2 converts lossless streams to 256kbbs AAC format, but none has offered any evidence. What's your source?
The article linked below says the conversion "supposedly" happens, but only with ALAC streams from the Apple Music streaming service. (See the section "Does Airplay 2 support lossless audio?")
They offer no evidence. The article links to another article on their site (about lossless audio) that says the ALAC streams "seem" to convert from ALAC to AAC - again, they cite no source and no data. Without evidence, these are nothing more than rumors.
What is AirPlay 2? How it works, and what speakers and devices support it
Apple's take on wireless multi-room audio lets you easily stream content from iOS devices to AirPlay 2-compatible TVs and products
Last edited:
Wiim has Qobuz app whereas TvOS doesn’t.I've seen forum posts (like this) saying that Airplay 2 converts lossless streams to 256kbbs AAC format without any evidence. What's your source?
The article linked below mentions the conversion, but only with ALAC streams from the Apple Music streaming service. (See the section "Does Airplay 2 support lossless audio?")
But it says "supposedly" - they offer no evidence. The article links to another article on their site (about lossless audio) that says the ALAC streams "seem" to convert from ALAC to AAC - again, they cite no source and no data. Without evidence, these are nothing more than rumors.
What is AirPlay 2? How it works, and what speakers and devices support it
Apple's take on wireless multi-room audio lets you easily stream content from iOS devices to AirPlay 2-compatible TVs and productswww.whathifi.com
Pretty unlikely they've messed up the conversion between models.
Come back when you've proved what you think you can hear and we may have something further of interest to discuss.
My evidence is that I have two streaming services, TIDAL and Apple Music lossless. If I cast the same song from Apple music or TIDAL using AirPlay from my phone to my WiiM , the WiiM always shows 256 Kbit/s for Apple music and TIDAL. If I use TIDAL connect, the data transfer is much higher, always more than 750 Kbit/s. However, using this 750 kbit song with AirPlay 2, the WiiM only gets 256 Kbit/s.I've seen forum posts (like this) before, saying that Airplay 2 converts lossless streams to 256kbbs AAC format, but none has offered any evidence. What's your source?
The article linked below says the conversion "supposedly" happens, but only with ALAC streams from the Apple Music streaming service. (See the section "Does Airplay 2 support lossless audio?")
They offer no evidence. The article links to another article on their site (about lossless audio) that says the ALAC streams "seem" to convert from ALAC to AAC - again, they cite no source and no data. Without evidence, these are nothing more than rumors.
What is AirPlay 2? How it works, and what speakers and devices support it
Apple's take on wireless multi-room audio lets you easily stream content from iOS devices to AirPlay 2-compatible TVs and products
WiiM uses airplay 2 . Some years ago I used AirPlay 1 with an AirPort express and this had a higher bitrate and offered CD quality. The supported new format from apple is AirPlay 2 , not 1.
My conclusion is that Airplay 2 is a lossy transfer protocol probably made for multiroom and multichannel and not suited for serious listening.
So , for getting high quality streaming you will need TIDAL connect or Qubos . Apple TV 4k dont have this.
Last edited:
If you use TiDAL connect or Spotify connect its not dependent on the batterys in your phone . It streams directly from Router to the WiiM.
How about the Qobuz app?
Your conclusion is incorrect. Your evidence is based on the information provided by WHA regarding the bitrate, so you could use Aircast feature between 2 WiiMs to get 44.1/16 stream at 900 kbps reported by WHA. With very clean plots of test signals:
All above for conversion 48 kHz > 44.1 kHz.
Yes : The ball is in his court.
I couldn't have responded better than you to Tang Bang, whose audiophile position I know well! THANKS...
On the other hand, I can clearly hear the differences between two different masterings of the same recording as long as there is something to hear...
But I have the immense luck of not perceiving any differences between the same master whatever its quality. resolution and its sampling frequency: easy to do by taking a file in 24/192 and converting it into 24/96 and 16/44.1... with DbPoweramp whose conversion tool is adopted by Radio France, even the fact that the Airplay protocol transcodes everything on the fly into 16/44.1 or 16/48 depending on whether you use an Airport terminal or an ATV is not at all audible to me although I know that this conversion on the fly is not as perfect as the one made for example on the fly in Audirvana or in Roon... but I had fun setting both to 16/48 to send in ATV and I still don't hear no differences... Which allows me to challenge the terms used by Tang Bang to qualify the quality of the ATV as a streamer... ATV is not a "very poor"...
I also don't hear the improvement brought by external power supplies, sector cables, modulation and other nonsense... and not between DACs having all their measurements placing their "defects" outside the audible field... but I hear the differences very well when there are any to be heard.
How lucky I am not to have golden ears...
It still exhibits the same behavior, with Squeezelite at least, when different sample rate tracks are played from the queue.
Chris M
Member
If I remember correctly, I voted for poor a few days ago. Yes! It's really amazing because I read here about the wonderful technical details and the really good review. And I thought that the device could replace my Teufel streamer or the Bluesound Node. I ordered the device during Black Friday days. And I'm very happy to have sent it back. I have attached my review on Amazon.de. What use is a technically very high-quality device to me, but the usability is subpar.
As an over 60 year old and even as a young person, a Sinad of around 80 is better inaudible. The distortion values are also so low that I won't notice anything because every box distorts more. But let's leave that alone. It's a shame, in my case the usability was so bad that the device had to be sent back, because the plastic box is also surprisingly pretty.
Here is my Amazon (Amazon.de) review:
What a joy when a wonderfully packaged, quickly delivered WIIM Pro Plus arrived. The device still had to be patient for a few days, but today it was ready to be unpacked, plugged in and then enjoy the promised high-quality playback quality. It would be nice for the manufacturer if it ended here. For me too!
But it goes on.
The device itself makes a high-quality impression when unpacked and is also well packaged within the box. I don't need a remote control or cable, I do everything via the app. But the power supply is needed and that's it. It's a non-EU power supply with a UK or whatever connection. Great, after a few searches I found a standard mobile phone power supply with a two amp output, now I found a USB to USB-C cable and then we finally got started.
The setup via the app works surprisingly well (have your WiFi password ready) and your own music on the external hard drive was found immediately via the Minim server...But the operation via the app: Album view has no tiles, just a tabular view with almost 1000 Albums like that are really bad for me. My 26107 titles are displayed as an item, but unfortunately only parts of the letter 'Z' are listed, ahrrrrg. The equalizer function is nice, but the German translation of the app is incomplete.
Network hard drives and Nas will not!! integrated, only media server...with the errors mentioned.
A polite greeting to the developers, treat yourself to a BluOs device and use the app so that you know how good operation works.
What would be acceptable with DIY devices because you have to expect that you have to tinker or not get complete functions, is not possible for me at all with a ready-made device. The sound doesn't really break it, because I don't want to listen and tinker, I just want to hear. At least at the moment this is not possible for me with this device.
Therefore our paths will part.
As an over 60 year old and even as a young person, a Sinad of around 80 is better inaudible. The distortion values are also so low that I won't notice anything because every box distorts more. But let's leave that alone. It's a shame, in my case the usability was so bad that the device had to be sent back, because the plastic box is also surprisingly pretty.
Here is my Amazon (Amazon.de) review:
What a joy when a wonderfully packaged, quickly delivered WIIM Pro Plus arrived. The device still had to be patient for a few days, but today it was ready to be unpacked, plugged in and then enjoy the promised high-quality playback quality. It would be nice for the manufacturer if it ended here. For me too!
But it goes on.
The device itself makes a high-quality impression when unpacked and is also well packaged within the box. I don't need a remote control or cable, I do everything via the app. But the power supply is needed and that's it. It's a non-EU power supply with a UK or whatever connection. Great, after a few searches I found a standard mobile phone power supply with a two amp output, now I found a USB to USB-C cable and then we finally got started.
The setup via the app works surprisingly well (have your WiFi password ready) and your own music on the external hard drive was found immediately via the Minim server...But the operation via the app: Album view has no tiles, just a tabular view with almost 1000 Albums like that are really bad for me. My 26107 titles are displayed as an item, but unfortunately only parts of the letter 'Z' are listed, ahrrrrg. The equalizer function is nice, but the German translation of the app is incomplete.
Network hard drives and Nas will not!! integrated, only media server...with the errors mentioned.
A polite greeting to the developers, treat yourself to a BluOs device and use the app so that you know how good operation works.
What would be acceptable with DIY devices because you have to expect that you have to tinker or not get complete functions, is not possible for me at all with a ready-made device. The sound doesn't really break it, because I don't want to listen and tinker, I just want to hear. At least at the moment this is not possible for me with this device.
Therefore our paths will part.
It's absolutely brilliant. I just purchased a Wiim Pro Plus so I can stream my turntable to my KEF LS50 Wireless 2 through Airplay 2, which I can't directly wire to. It in essence turns it into an inexpensive WiFi audio interface. I'm curious if I could use this pathway. Turntable -> Phono Preamp -> Wiim Pro Plus -> IPad through Airplay 2 -> DAC -> Kef Wireless 2. This would make the stream lossless through wifi, since I believe Airplay 2 is only lossless if to and from an Apple device? Does anyone know if this is true or possible? I think if I go Wiim Pro Plus to KEF LS50 Wireless 2 directly, the music is no longer lossless, but not 100% sure.
Similar threads
