Is Soekris dac1321 worth buying?

[Calexico]

Keeping you mind open is one thing. Allowing your brain to fall out and roll around the floor is quite another.

I dont have the energy. Hitting ignore, easier not to see this.

1 or 2 people finding that they have placebo doesn't mean for 1000 people it's the same. You ve got to make test with more people to validate your hypothesis.
You just prove that for one or two people for one kind of test placebo can exist. You cannot generalise it's the same for every components where measurements tell us they should sound same. That's just what i say. Then make a faq with scientific test is a good idea.
For example a scientific test with ess vs akm or a test with differencies with opa or opa vs discret stage with low thd. Between two dac that has almost same circuit i agree it seems it's only placebo.
I don't think these tests exists so you cannot claim that feeling a difference is only Placebo.
But i agree that placebo also has its place but not always explain the difference of feeling

 

[RayDunzl]

You ve got to make test with...

Why do "we" have to do anything to entertain you?

 

[Tks]

For example a scientific test with ess vs akm or a test with differencies with opa or opa vs discret stage with low thd. Between two dac that has almost same circuit i agree it seems it's only placebo.
I don't think these tests exists so you cannot claim that feeling a difference is only Placebo.
But i agree that placebo also has its place.

Problem being, you're the one making the claims. You seem to misunderstand how the concept "burden of proof" falls upon you if we're being fair.

Second, you don't explain what "place" that placebo has that you allude to.

Third, lack of evidence to the contrary doesn't give you the valid platform to claim you are right with no evidence either. Objective testing like ABX has already been the only litmus test required that has easily quelled your claims. The doors are open for you to bring a representative of the golden ears (or just regular people since you perhaps feel you don't need golden ears for it), and demonstrate with your own funded studies or experiments. How much longer must the goodwill of science bankroll disproving endlessly through giving people confident in your belief's a chance to prove themselves, only to have them constantly fail?

 

[amirm]

1 or 2 people finding that they have placebo doesn't mean for 1000 people it's the same. Y

Thousands and thousands of people have been tested and they allo show placebo effect. Myself included. There are NO exceptions. It is part of being human.

A story.

I was in Las Vegas for a show (CES?). While I was in my room the TV was on the hotel channel. They had this guy that was giving the lay of the land in casino. He had this great advice: "if a pretty girl comes to you at the bar, don't fall for her. She is going to get your money. You are NOT that special!"

Same to you. You are not the exception. No one is.

 

[Calexico]

Why do "we" have to do anything to entertain you?

If you doesn't have a scientific test for differences of sound between opa where measures shown should sound same stop saying that it 's sure that it's placebo if someone enjoy better one opa.
In a site with a science in its name you should not generalise from studies in one case for one component.
If you do so you ve no credibility.

 

[amirm]

If you doesn't have a scientific test for differences of sound between opa where measures shown should sound same stop saying that it 's sure that it's placebo if someone enjoy better one opa.

Do you have a scientific test for existence of pink elephants? If not, I am going to continue to believe they exist.....

 

[Tks]

If you doesn't have a scientific test for differences of sound between opa where measures shown should sound same stop saying that it 's sure that it's placebo if someone enjoy better one opa.
In a site with a science in its name you should not generalise from studies in one case for one component.
If you do so you ve no credibility.

No problem stranger, I got you with some of the work on that front done here:

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ng-replacing-op-amps-in-topping-d10-dac.4576/

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...amps-in-gustard-h20-headphone-amplifier.7407/

And sort of:

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...o-measurements-of-arcam-black-box-3-mk1.7463/

 

[solderdude]

If you doesn't have a scientific test for differences of sound between opa where measures shown should sound same stop saying that it 's sure that it's placebo if someone enjoy better one opa.
In a site with a science in its name you should not generalise from studies in one case for one component.
If you do so you ve no credibility.

The one with no credibility is the one who is so convinced he does not need to test blind.
Your open mind is as closed as it can be.
BUT I am sure once you did test the different opamps blind the magic will have disappeared.
Instead of demanding a set of 'better' measurements you should test PROPERLY yourself and base conclusions on the statistical outcome of such tests.
I get it ... this takes a LOT of effort, involves other people and a month of 'listening' with the scaring prospect of loosing your ability to 'hear' differences. After all ... ALL you have (and use) in these types of tests is your ears... You will find they aren't as 'good' as you thought they were being a trustworthy analyser.
Fortunately you can still enjoy music with those things inside your head.
Much easier to simply state that you CAN hear it (and other golden-eared folks as well) and simply state ... the measurements don't tell it all.

YOU are looking for excuses and rattle cages ... go LEARN about this. That is a more useful spendature of time.

 

[LTig]

1 or 2 people finding that they have placebo doesn't mean for 1000 people it's the same. You ve got to make test with more people to validate your hypothesis.

Many different persons have been tested and they all failed. This has been done for 80 years or more by audio scientists, leading to a fair understanding how the human hearing sense works and where its limits are. One of the many results of the research is that DBTs are the only way to ensure that differences exist in listening tests. Therefore it is your task to prove your claim, not ours.

It seems that you have no knowledge about the working of the hearing sense and its limits, and despite numerous efforts by several members here it seems you are also not willing to make yourself known with audio science. If you still refuse to do so this discussion will lead nowhere.

 

[LTig]

If you doesn't have a scientific test for differences of sound between opa where measures shown should sound same stop saying that it 's sure that it's placebo if someone enjoy better one opa.

I have already told you that enjoyment and transparency are not the same. Was the explanation not understandable?

In a site with a science in its name you should not generalise from studies in one case for one component.
If you do so you ve no credibility.

This is rude! See my posting above who has to prove claims, and think again about credibility.

 

[Calexico]

Do you have a scientific test for existence of pink elephants? If not, I am going to continue to believe they exist.....

Your pink elephant is that placebo explain all difference that are not shown by actual knowledge of measurements.
And you believe in your pink elephant.

 

[RayDunzl]

If you still refuse to do so this discussion will lead nowhere.

 

[LTig]

Do you have a scientific test for existence of pink elephants? If not, I am going to continue to believe they exist.....

Of course they exist, they are just undercover as cyclists ....

See this local joke:
Q: How do you make a pink elephant invisible?
A: Put some cycle pedals on its sides. Each car driver will say, that he has not seen the bicycle ...

 

[RayDunzl]

Do you have a scientific test for existence of pink elephants? If not, I am going to continue to believe they exist.....

And they do, on occasion...

https://www.catersnews.com/stories/...arade-meet-the-adorable-pink-albino-elephant/

 

[LTig]

Your pink elephant is that placebo explain all difference that are not shown by actual knowledge of measurements.
And you believe in your pink elephant.

The reason for this believe is backed up by 80 years or more of science research. Your believe is backed up by what your hearing sense tells you, ignoring all its limits, ignoring the scientific research.

 

[Calexico]

I have already told you that enjoyment and transparency are not the same. Was the explanation not understandable?

This is rude! See my posting above who has to prove claims, and think again about credibility.

Well why not making a scientific part in tests for enjoyability of dacs by testings what is known about enjoyability in music?
I think everybody here should provide link of proof before stating things. I don't like when i read it's proven for years but no link or reference is provided. If placebo is true everybody should by a used 20$ cd player from the 90s for cd or an old cheap usb dac. But most people enjoy better new dacs. Then everyone here buy the dacs tested here because of placebo effect of numbers. So it's pointless...
Unless something can proove that actually they sound better to the human.

 

[Frank Dernie]

If you doesn't have a scientific test for differences of sound between opa where measures shown should sound same stop saying that it 's sure that it's placebo if someone enjoy better one opa.
In a site with a science in its name you should not generalise from studies in one case for one component.
If you do so you ve no credibility.

I think you will be much more relaxed once you realise that you are just human and the placebo effect is present in you, more strongly than average, perhaps, based on what you have written so I far.
Don’t forget the placebo effect means that you really will hear a difference, even when there is none. If the one you prefer the sound of makers you happier then continue because it is actually sounding better to you.
A blind test does burst the bubble but if you are convinced you are hearing a difference you probably will continue to do so.
The thing is, all the possible reasons for the sound of a piece of Hi-Fi are easily measured to a level of accuracy way beyond anybody’s hearing acuity.
If you imagine there may be something else that could be measured that could explain what you are confident you hear, you are not the first person to feel this way. You are not correct though, you are 99% sure experiencing the placebo effect, which you could demonstrate to yourself with a blind test.
OTOH plenty of people don’t wish to have their “bubble” burst and don’t do the test and continue to be convinced there is a difference that is not imagined.
That is fine for them, but ignoring science in this way simply means this is not the sort of forum they will be comfortable in.
I have plenty of friends who have similar opinions to yours. None of them are technically minded.

 

[andreasmaaan]

If placebo is true everybody should by a used 20$ cd player from the 90s for cd or an old cheap usb dac.

I agree/do

Why so focused on placebo though?

There's been all sorts of research over decades establishing the functioning and limits of human hearing. The placebo effect is just a side detail in the question of what electronic differences are likely to be audible and what aren't.

 

[Calexico]

No problem stranger, I got you with some of the work on that front done here:

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ng-replacing-op-amps-in-topping-d10-dac.4576/

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...amps-in-gustard-h20-headphone-amplifier.7407/

And sort of:

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...o-measurements-of-arcam-black-box-3-mk1.7463/

Thanks but my question was proof of
Choosing opa that shouldn't sound different from specs but where people have preferences
And then find if it's placebo or a not yet measured parameter. I agee it has very small effect on measurements

 

[Frank Dernie]

Well why not making a scientific part in tests for enjoyability of dacs by testings what is known about enjoyability in music?
I think everybody here should provide link of proof before stating things. I don't like when i read it's proven for years but no link or reference is provided. If placebo is true everybody should by a used 20$ cd player from the 90s for cd or an old cheap usb dac. But most people enjoy better new dacs. Then everyone here buy the dacs tested here because of placebo effect of numbers. So it's pointless...
Unless something can proove that actually they sound better to the human.

No, the reason people think more expensive Hi-Fi sounds better is because of the placebo effect. If it were not for the placebo effect everybody would indeed be content with less expensive good performing kit.
Not all cheap kit is good but some is excellent.
I have relatively expensive electronics but my amp was chosen partly because of facilities, partly styling, partly power output but also a home comparison with my existing old amp which sounded the same but was starting to have the odd reliability problem.