You dont need a crossover but the same rules apply as building a normal 3 way speaker : correct cabinet volume , tuning frequency, good baffle shape and the right amount of internal damping material .
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Properties of speakers that creates a large and precise soundstage
- Thread starter sigbergaudio
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The ones I heard were square, but shared the rather smart piano black gloss.
Keith
Keith
Agree there are many bad ones
As for bass reflex single driver, some "bass reflex" designs I've seen were tall enough that they were essentially mass-loaded transmission lines.
MAB
Major Contributor
Saying things are a fact without offering proof is exactly the opposite of what ASR is about, and will get stiff resistance just about anywhere you say unsupported things (not just ASR). And to be clear, you aren't very technical, and get so many facts wrong, never demonstrate or support your statements with data, so when you say "It's a fact", I have to chuckle.
This is a great example of you making sweeping statements that are 100% unsupported, and not even bothering with facts. Are you aware of the many models of MiniDSP with analog inputs (there is no "the one")? Are you saying that all of the models with analog inputs sound bad? Or are you saying that the Flex with analog input sounds bad compared to the Flex with no analog inputs? Or are you just making a sweeping statement about devices you have no experience with? Likely.
'Good' DSP can be done for free with your computer, how can you not know this? And, the "will loose some musical information" seems to be you not understanding even the barest DSP basics.
No we don't, you jump to conclusions again, and why do you assume L-R??? Seems like you just made a word-salad.When we discuss this, we always suggest that a dsp crossover is perfect with schoolbook behaviour with a perfect Linkwitz Riley crossover . But the real world is nowhere near perfect , drivers are very unlinear and a perfect aligned crossover dont exist . The best crossover is no crossover .
As for single drivers sounding good...my old Pioneer single drivers were OK at low volumes. They had little bass or treble, but were pleasant enough. Oddly enough, I have never considered going back to that.
MAB
Major Contributor
Please offer some proof to back up even one thing you say.
ernestcarl
Major Contributor
Eh, seriously, you’re quite the sophistry exemplar…
I commend others for even trying.
I think we're just dumb enough to take the offered bait
MAB
Major Contributor
I'm not sure what I'm trying to do here...
Dude has been trolling this site for years, I think it's more my irritation with the pseudo-science, nothing I write here will cause understanding to happen or make the unsupported stream of anecdotes stop.
edit. Something to think about: answer to question in topic of this thread depends entirely on the room and what you want to listen to, the close sound or far sound. Considering some records sound better with either, and that some people seem to like either, there is no single answer but perhaps three! Properties of speakers that creates a large and precise sound stage depends on your room and what you want to hear, and how carefully you can position speakers and listening position to actually make it happen
I hadn't heard it before... what a mind trip! Thanks for sharing.
Agreed that the room has an effect but so too does the speaker. Well controlled point source speakers like many of the popular Genelecs and even my MTM Meyer Ultra-X20 will completely disappear if the source material and room allow. The effect can be quite spooky.
Below are a couple of images of my home office/media room. The speakers are 30" from the front wall and are fully toed in. They are set at precisely 10' apart with the primary listing position also at 10' away. The bookcases between them are 13" deep and make a massive diffuser. Imaging is so well presented that when playing a hard center panned instrument or singer, it is completely disassociated from the left and right speakers. Initially when I set up the room, I literally had to unplug the center channel speaker to prove to myself that it wasn't contributing.
In this room (20' wide by 13' 6" deep) the soundstage can collapse to a single singer in the center to a massive and encircling image all dependent on the source material. Is this important? To some folks it is, I get a kick out of it, but find a more diffuse less well defined image more in keeping with live music and enjoy that equally well.
The second image shows the room in theater mode. Here the imaging is far less impressive as the diffuser is mostly removed from the equation. Conveniently when watching films, the visuals offer enough support that the lesser imaging from the speakers isn't noticeable.
Friggin’ double reed players. They’re all crazy from the glue.
My speakers are MTM, also. Maybe MTM is better at exciting that kind of soundstage stuff.
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I see now. You are another one confusing personal preference for fact.
As they say, nothing wrong enjoying what you like.....
Can you show any measurements that prove your point?
I cannot find any one driver speaker that seriously can be used for 20Hz-20kHz. Where can one find one?
Some years ago I delivered a rather unorthodox and quite large single-driver speaker to a customer who had warned me in advance that he was going to refuse them and demand a refund if they failed to have bass extension into the 20 Hz region. We set them up and listened to a few songs of his choice, and he liked what he heard. Then he pulled out his test disc and Radio Shack SPL meter. I was nervous about possibly losing a sale to an unfavorable in-room SPL reading.
He played 1/3 octave warble tones and wrote down the dB readings as the tracks descended in frequency. The 20 Hz band was -6 dB on the SPL meter. I held my breath. He hemmed and hawed a bit and finally decided to keep the speakers. Whew!
Then while driving home I remembered that the Radio Shack SPL meter's readings had to be corrected at low frequencies because its response falls off at low frequencies. I looked it up when I got home and the correction curve called for adding 6 dB to the 20 Hz measurement! In other words, these single-driver speakers were actually flat in-room to 20 Hz!!
(In a factory setting I once watched a real-time analyzer measurement of this speaker and am reasonably confident that the top end reached 20 kHz but I was mainly focused on the shape of the RTA curve rather than on the bandwidth limits.)
So what speaker was it? A big SoundLab full-range electrostat, about seven feet tall and about three feet wide. Hey, it meets the "single driver" criterion!
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