Where do I alter volume, and what do I leave alone?

[Trell]

With the DAC on full, set the speaker volume so it is the loudest you will ever likely listen. (This may be some way below full volume)

I’ve some content that has low level so I prefer to have some available gain for that, but that means that some other content can be very loud by accident.

 

[Yorkshire Mouth]

I would suggest a slight mod to "full volume on speakers"

With the DAC on full, set the speaker volume so it is the loudest you will ever likely listen. (This may be some way below full volume)

Then use the DAC volume control to reduce from there.



This way you minimise the amplification of noise on the input to the speakers, and maximise the SNR from the DAC.

Great stuff, many thanks.

For clarity, “With the DAC on full…”, and the PC/streamer on…?

 

[dualazmak]

I’ve some content that has low level so I prefer to have some available gain for that, but that means that some other content can be very loud by accident.

Yes, I agree with you.

In this kind of multichannel multi-amplifier setup, we should be careful about our "ignition/start-up sequences" and "shutdown sequences" for safety and SP protection point of view.

If you would be interested, therefore;
- Startup (ignition) sequences and shutdown sequences of multichannel multi-amplifier system: #426, on my project thread.

 

[antcollinet]

Great stuff, many thanks.

For clarity, “With the DAC on full…”, and the PC/streamer on…?

PC / Streamer also full. No need to use that for volume control.

 

[Trell]

Yes, I agree with you.

In this kind of multichannel multi-amplifier setup, we should be careful about our "ignition/start-up sequences" and "shutdown sequences" for safety and SP protection point of view.

If you would be interested, therefore;
- Startup (ignition) sequences and shutdown sequences of multichannel multi-amplifier system: #426, on my project thread.

Sure, but here there are no separate amplifiers, though, so assuming the volume level for the subwoofer/monitor can be set low enough that should work very well.

Using passive attenuators is also a viable option in many cases.

 

[Yorkshire Mouth]

PC / Streamer also full. No need to use that for volume control.

Okay, so if I have that right:

- Set PC/Streamer and DAC/Pre-amp to full.
- Set speakers to 0.
- Turn speakers on.
- Increase volume on speakers until as loud as I’ll ever need.
- Balance speakers/sub.
- Control day-to-day master volume from DAC/Pre-amp.

Is that about right?

 

[JustJones]

Okay, so if I have that right:

- Set PC/Streamer and DAC/Pre-amp to full.
- Set speakers to 0.
- Turn speakers on.
- Increase volume on speakers until as loud as I’ll ever need.
- Balance speakers/sub.
- Control day-to-day master volume from DAC/Pre-amp.

Is that about right?

Depends on the speaker, 0 on some speakers is full, it could be you would start your speakers at something like -70.

 

[Yorkshire Mouth]

Sorry everyone, a potential issue. In his review of the 308Ps Amir says:

And oh, yes, there is hiss from the tweeter. It is very audible with your ear at the tweeter level but is gone at about 2/3 of a meter/2 feet or so. Turning down the gain reduces it a bit but note that this speaker does NOT want to have too much driving it. Setting the gain low and them pumping up the source generates severe distortion. Shame as this would be a good way to reduce the impact.

The JBLs distort easily if driven with a high signal from elsewhere.

Comments or suggestions?

 

[dualazmak]

Using passive attenuators is also a viable option in many cases.

Partly agree, but "complete elimination of passive LCR-network and attenuators" has been one of the main motivations and goals of my multichannel multi-amplifier project in terms of much better total sound quality.

The use of HiFi preamplifiers between DAC and power-amplifier, or the use of HiFi integrated-amplifiers, would be alternative choices. In my case, I decided to use HiFi integrated amplifiers in the concept and policy of "right person in right place".

 

[staticV3]

The JBLs distort easily if driven with a high signal from elsewhere.

Comments or suggestions?

Curious. The JBL manual states that the max input voltage with the 308P MKII set to +4dBu input sensitivity is +20.3dBu (=8.0Vrms):


Maybe Amir had his 308P set to -10dBV input sensitivity, and that's why it distorted?

 

[Yorkshire Mouth]

Curious. The JBL manual states that the max input voltage with the 308P MKII set to +4dBu input sensitivity is +20.3dBu (=8.0Vrms):
View attachment 298298

Maybe Amir had his 308P set to -10dBV input sensitivity, and that's why it distorted?

I had considered that, but dare not suggest it.

@amirm ?

 

[Yorkshire Mouth]

Partly agree, but "complete elimination of passive LCR-network and attenuators" has been one of the main motivations and goals of my multichannel multi-amplifier project in terms of much better total sound quality.

The use of HiFi preamplifiers between DAC and power-amplifier, or the use of HiFi integrated-amplifiers, would be alternative choices. In my case, I decided to use HiFi integrated amplifiers in the concept and policy of "right person in right place".

In this instance, the EX5 can work in ‘pre-amp mode’, so effectively is the “hi-fi preamp between DAC and power amp”.

 

[antcollinet]

Okay, so if I have that right:

- Set PC/Streamer and DAC/Pre-amp to full.
- Set speakers to 0.
- Turn speakers on.
- Increase volume on speakers until as loud as I’ll ever need.
- Balance speakers/sub.
- Control day-to-day master volume from DAC/Pre-amp.

Is that about right?

Pretty much - proviso that 0 is minimum volume as pointed out by @JustJones

 

[Yorkshire Mouth]

Pretty much - proviso that 0 is minimum volume as pointed out by @JustJones

Yes, that was my meaning. Cheers.

But now see post #28 (above).

 

[dualazmak]

The JBLs distort easily if driven with a high signal from elsewhere.

Yes, the hiss from tweeter of 308Ps, active one-box monitor SP, would be almost inevitable in very near-field listening.

In case if you would/could drive the high-efficient tweeter by dedicated HiFi amplifier, you can minimize the problem, I believe.
For this kind of highly-efficient tweeters and super-tweeters, we definitely do not need powerful HiFi amplifier, but small-power high-SN low-distortion amplifiers should be really suitable.

Just for your reference, please referer here on my project thread;
- Even Greg Timbers uses "reasonable and budget" Pioneer Elite A-20 for compression drivers (super tweeters) in his extraordinary expensive multichannel stereo system with JBL Everest DD67000 which he himself designed and developed: #435

 

[respice finem]

I presume I should just use the Topping to control volume, would I have the right?
If so, what should I set the volume on all the other components at (PC/streamer, sub, monitors)?

It is the most convenient way, just to have the EX5 with its volume control as a "preamp" for all these. I have my HTPC connected via USB, a TV via Toslink, a CD player via Coax and a bluray player via the TV, the Topping's volume control being "master volume". No problems whatsoever.
Oh, and headphones too, plugged in all the time and switched on when needed. The EX5 stores the volume for the headphones and speakers separately.

The volume of the speakers (JBL 308P Mk2, in my case without sub at least yet) is set to maximum. BTW it seems to really be "volume" rather than "gain", because the hiss stays the same if you I them down. I didn't touch the default settings of the speakers yet, waiting for my carpets too arrive before I can make measurements.

One remark (obvious I know but easy to forget): Turn down the volume of the EX5 when connecting speakers and sub for the first time.

 

[JustJones]

Looks like 0 volume on those speakers is 1 and full is 10. To keep the gain low setting the input to +4dBs makes sense. Adjusting the day to day volume by preamp still makes the most sense to me.
You might start with input +4dBs, volume 1 on speaker.
100% volume on source and somewhere around 70% on your preamp.
Adjust volume on speaker to comfortable level or high as you ever go.
Feel free to play with these settings to your comfort level.

 

[Yorkshire Mouth]

It is the most convenient way, just to have the EX5 with its volume control as a "preamp" for all these. I have my HTPC connected via USB, a TV via Toslink, a CD player via Coax and a bluray player via the TV, the Topping's volume control being "master volume". No problems whatsoever.
Oh, and headphones too, plugged in all the time and switched on when needed. The EX5 stores the volume for the headphones and speakers separately.

The volume of the speakers (JBL 308P Mk2, in my case without sub at least yet) is set to maximum. BTW it seems to really be "volume" rather than "gain", because the hiss stays the same if you I them down. I didn't touch the default settings of the speakers yet, waiting for my carpets too arrive before I can make measurements.

One remark (obvious I know but easy to forget): Turn down the volume of the EX5 when connecting speakers and sub for the first time.

Great advice, many thanks.

I feel…superstitious about setting the speakers to max (for these the range is 0-10). I might prefer 9, unless there’s a good reason not to.

 

[JustJones]

I always keep my preamp volume inaudible at turn on/off.

 

[Yorkshire Mouth]

Looks like 0 volume on those speakers is 1 and full is 10. To keep the gain low setting the input to +4dBs makes sense. Adjusting the day to day volume by preamp still makes the most sense to me.
You might start with input +4dBs, volume 1 on speaker.
100% volume on source and somewhere around 70% on your preamp.
Adjust volume on speaker to comfortable level or high as you ever go.
Feel free to play with these settings to your comfort level.

Cheers.

Whilst I’m looking for ‘perfection’, does it matter a huge amount which way round I do it?