YouTube Audio Reviewer Tier List - Jan 2023 Edition

[Tryphon]

As I am rather old school, I prefer review in the text (mostly online now as here.
But video is perfect for some pornography. My favoite is that domain is a guy name ilfafioccaro. A gear collection absolutely insane.To a less extend skyfi audio and Skylabs audio could be entertaining.

 

[MattHooper]

His cup may have bcome a chalice, but it's still filled with the wrong type of brown stuff. His turd is merely being rolled in glitter, it cannot be polished.

Ok. Emotions noted. I'd be curious if you had good reasons for your scatological characterizations, but I don't think it will be fruitful to ask.

 

[yewneek]

Ok. Emotions noted. I'd be curious if you had good reasons for your scatological characterizations, but I don't think it will be fruitful to ask.

A b*tch to marketing excreta, serving two Dommes. AKA 2 Hungry B*tches
Coprophagia ftw

 

[MattHooper]

A b*tch to marketing excreta, serving two Dommes. AKA 2 Hungry B*tches
Coprophagia ftw

Hookay....

In the words of King Arthur...

 

[anmpr1]

I think there is a bit of confusion around the terms here. Monetization of a YT video means that you allow YT to show ads with the video, and share that ad income with the content creator...

There is also something called 'affiliate links'. I don't know about the hi-fi scene, but on guitar-related channels, that is evidently when the channel operator 'reviews' (usually on loan from the manufacturer or retailer) a product, and then the viewer decides to purchase a like item, clicking from the YT site to that of the retailer, in order to make a purchase.

As I understand it, U Toober gets some sort of monetary kickback from the purchase.

As long as everything is disclosed up front, and I mean everything, I find no ethical problems over the practice. Ex: I watch Phil McKnight's weekly show for industry insights. Phil tells you up front how much money he makes from a click, how he got a particular item for review, other freebies he gets, and so forth.

Hi-Fi products are usually so expensive I don't see how something like this would work. Hi-Fi gear is not like buying a pack of Ernie Balls, or even a pedal, which will probably not run you more than one or two hundred dollars.

 

[VintageFlanker]

 

[MattHooper]

Unfortunately even if he is right by not naming names he doesn’t give a chance for the targets of his criticisms to respond, and he leaves lots of reviewers wondering if he’s talking about them or not. Personally I had a hard time coming up with many YouTube reviewers who fit some of his descriptions.
So I think this rant comes off as yet another “the other reviewers are full of shit, but I’m here to tell you the real deal.”

 

[Axo1989]

Unfortunately even if he is right by not naming names he doesn’t give a chance for the targets of his criticisms to respond, and he leaves lots of reviewers wondering if he’s talking about them or not. Personally I had a hard time coming up with many YouTube reviewers who fit some of his descriptions.
So I think this rant comes off as yet another “the other reviewers are full of shit, but I’m here to tell you the real deal.”

Yeah, I only made it a few minutes in: big headline + angry face = clicks

 

[Jeromeof]

Having a title of "These Audio Reviewers don't care about you" and then not actually name them - seems a bit like click-bait. But he has mostly seemed like a nice guy who at least has a fundamental understanding of what is correct IMO and he does at least briefly say nice things about Erin and Amir later in the video.

 

[VintageFlanker]

Seems like you all talk about @joentell like if he wasn't here, yet he is...

 

[Axo1989]

Seems like you all talk about @joentell like if he wasn't here, yet he is...

I rarely like YouTubery, so he shouldn't take it personally.

Also looks like he hasn't posted for over a year so we aren't really acquainted.

 

[MattHooper]

Seems like you all talk about @joentell like if he wasn't here, yet he is...

I wasn't aware he is here (or if so, I'd forgotten, not all of us have a mental rolodex of every ASR member).

I would certainly have no problem expressing my criticism of his video to him, here. It's a single video, not a condemnation of his life's work

 

[egellings]

Unfortunately even if he is right by not naming names he doesn’t give a chance for the targets of his criticisms to respond, and he leaves lots of reviewers wondering if he’s talking about them or not. Personally I had a hard time coming up with many YouTube reviewers who fit some of his descriptions.
So I think this rant comes off as yet another “the other reviewers are full of shit, but I’m here to tell you the real deal.”

But it's very good shit!

 

[joentell]

"Don't hate the player, hate the game!" I'm hating on the game, so I didn't feel the need to call out the players. My rant might be more about YouTube and what it chooses to recommend. It's my fault because I thought it was an educational platform, and forgot it's more "show business" than anything. My fault. I'm mad at myself for forgetting that.

YouTube is about entertainment. But, I also have to remind myself that some of my best teachers were also entertaining. I don't think integrity, transparency, entertainment, and education are mutually exclusive.

I do get annoyed when I see misinformation spread. But, I don't know if you blame the YouTube algorithm for that or if you blame the people who chose to watch and subscribe? I don't know.

But here's an example. My rant video has about 12K views after one day. My interview with @amirm from two years ago has 20K views. https://www.youtube.com/live/B2AflXTTxgQ?feature=share I think my interview with Amir is more educational. But maybe it wasn't entertaining enough. I don't know. I thought it was.

That's all I really want to say. I made the video I wanted to make. I said exactly what I wanted to say. Some people wanted me to say specific names of people I think are the bad actors, but I chose not to. I'm not going to. If I wanted to, I would have. If my rant video would've gotten no views, I would be ok with it. It was for me to get something I've been wanting to say off my chest.

 

[VintageFlanker]

not all of us have a mental rolodex of every ASR member

Neither do I.

I just noticed at some point that a 80k+ subs YouTuber was in da house. Especially when the latter did a talk with Amir, at the beginning of his YT channel (ASR one). There were also a few talks with Erin that worth a watch, IMHO.

I would certainly have no problem expressing my criticism of his video to him, here.

Well, now you can.

On a more personal note, I personally feel quite a bit inconfortable when I see objectivists "fighting" among themselves. There would be so many things to criticize elsewhere... anyway...

I said exactly what I wanted to say.

No question you did. Sounded like sincere thoughts to me. Now, keep it up with your great work, indeed, so much more relevant than YT dramas.

 

[MattHooper]

"Don't hate the player, hate the game!" I'm hating on the game, so I didn't feel the need to call out the players. My rant might be more about YouTube and what it chooses to recommend. It's my fault because I thought it was an educational platform, and forgot it's more "show business" than anything. My fault. I'm mad at myself for forgetting that.

YouTube is about entertainment. But, I also have to remind myself that some of my best teachers were also entertaining. I don't think integrity, transparency, entertainment, and education are mutually exclusive.

I do get annoyed when I see misinformation spread. But, I don't know if you blame the YouTube algorithm for that or if you blame the people who chose to watch and subscribe? I don't know.

But here's an example. My rant video has about 12K views after one day. My interview with @amirm from two years ago has 20K views. https://www.youtube.com/live/B2AflXTTxgQ?feature=share I think my interview with Amir is more educational. But maybe it wasn't entertaining enough. I don't know. I thought it was.

That's all I really want to say. I made the video I wanted to make. I said exactly what I wanted to say. Some people wanted me to say specific names of people I think are the bad actors, but I chose not to. I'm not going to. If I wanted to, I would have. If my rant video would've gotten no views, I would be ok with it. It was for me to get something I've been wanting to say off my chest.

Ok thanks Joe.

I certainly agree that a rant about audio misinformation, certainly among youtube reviewers, is always due. There are folks like Jay (Jay's Audio Lab) who have taken on guru status simply by having gone down the subjective rabbit hole and purchasing much of the most outrageously priced equipment, often buying in to dubious manufacturer claims (the cables, the ridiculous Taiko Extreme server at something like 40 grand, etc). And oh...didja know he's now selling his "own" brand of cables?

So there's certainly a lot of the subjective woo-woo out there to counter.

But one of the suggestions you made that, off hand, stuck out was that many of these youtube reviewers want you to come to them to "be told what to buy."

That's the type of thing that struck me as mostly a strawman. I'm masochistic enough to have watched many different youtube high end audio channels, and I struggled to think of anyone who fit that criticism. Virtually all I can think of have emphasized at one time or another how subjective any preference for gear is, that they are not saying "YOU should buy this" but simply trying to describe the character of the gear so the viewer can have some more information in making gear choices. Certainly someone like Steve Guttenberg has emphasized many times that whatever he likes may not be what the viewer will like so Make Your Own Choice.

Off hand, maybe someone as obnoxious as OCD Mikey might tell someone what to buy (but even then, I might be wrong).

And it actually seems to me, ironically, that it is the subjective crowd who are more prone to make caveats about the subjective nature of their assesment, to give more benefit of a doubt to products that might satisfy other people even if not them, than the objective crowd. Ultimately I think everyone will say "it's up to any individual what he/she likes to buy." But there is a stronger tenor of "we are using objective ways of sifting the good stuff from the junk...so don't waste your money on the stuff we've deem sub-par."

So it seems to me, if anything, there is a stronger sense of trying to direct people's purchases from the measurement crowd vs the subjective reviewing crowd.

But, anyway, it seems to me that throwing out the claim many youtubers are trying to tell people what to buy sort if indiscriminately indites the reviewers, many of whom would rightly ask "Is he talking about me? If so he's got me wrong." But since you don't mention any names it seems an opportunity to raise a sort of "I'm better than them in this regard" without us knowing whether you've strawmanned whoever you have in mind in the first place.

 

[joentell]

Ok thanks Joe.

I certainly agree that a rant about audio misinformation, certainly among youtube reviewers, is always due. There are folks like Jay (Jay's Audio Lab) who have taken on guru status simply by having gone down the subjective rabbit hole and purchasing much of the most outrageously priced equipment, often buying in to dubious manufacturer claims (the cables, the ridiculous Taiko Extreme server at something like 40 grand, etc). And oh...didja know he's now selling his "own" brand of cables?

So there's certainly a lot of the subjective woo-woo out there to counter.

But one of the complaint you made that, off hand, stuck out was that many of these youtube reviewers want you to come to them to "be told what to buy."

That's the type of thing that struck me as mostly a strawman. I'm masochistic enough to have watched many different youtube high end audio channels, and I struggled to think of anyone who fit that criticism. Virtually all I can think of have emphasized at one time or another how subjective any preference for gear is, that they are not saying "YOU should buy this" but simply trying to describe the character of the gear so the viewer can have some more information in making gear choices. Certainly someone like Steve Guttenberg has emphasized many times that whatever he likes may not be what the viewer will like so Make Your Own Choice.

Off hand, maybe someone as obnoxious as OCD Mikey might tell someone what to buy (but even then, I might be wrong).

And it actually seems to me, ironically, that it is the subjective crowd who are more prone to make caveats about the subjective nature of their assesment, to give more benefit of a doubt to products that might satisfy other people even if not them, than the objective crowd. Ultimately I think everyone will say "it's up to any individual what he/she likes to buy." But there is a stronger tenor of "we are using objective ways of sifting the good stuff from the junk...so don't waste your money on the stuff we've deem sub-par."

So it seems to me, if anything, there is a stronger sense of trying to direct people's purchases from the measurement crowd vs the subjective reviewing crowd.

But, anyway, it seems to me that throwing out the claim many youtubers are trying to tell people what to buy sort if indiscriminately indites the reviewers, many of whom would rightly ask "Is he talking about me? If so he's got me wrong." But since you don't mention any names it seems an opportunity to raise a sort of "I'm better than them in this regard" without us knowing whether you've strawmanned whoever you have in mind in the first place.

Ok thanks Joe.

I certainly agree that a rant about audio misinformation, certainly among youtube reviewers, is always due. There are folks like Jay (Jay's Audio Lab) who have taken on guru status simply by having gone down the subjective rabbit hole and purchasing much of the most outrageously priced equipment, often buying in to dubious manufacturer claims (the cables, the ridiculous Taiko Extreme server at something like 40 grand, etc). And oh...didja know he's now selling his "own" brand of cables?

So there's certainly a lot of the subjective woo-woo out there to counter.

But one of the complaint you made that, off hand, stuck out was that many of these youtube reviewers want you to come to them to "be told what to buy."

That's the type of thing that struck me as mostly a strawman. I'm masochistic enough to have watched many different youtube high end audio channels, and I struggled to think of anyone who fit that criticism. Virtually all I can think of have emphasized at one time or another how subjective any preference for gear is, that they are not saying "YOU should buy this" but simply trying to describe the character of the gear so the viewer can have some more information in making gear choices. Certainly someone like Steve Guttenberg has emphasized many times that whatever he likes may not be what the viewer will like so Make Your Own Choice.

Off hand, maybe someone as obnoxious as OCD Mikey might tell someone what to buy (but even then, I might be wrong).

And it actually seems to me, ironically, that it is the subjective crowd who are more prone to make caveats about the subjective nature of their assesment, to give more benefit of a doubt to products that might satisfy other people even if not them, than the objective crowd. Ultimately I think everyone will say "it's up to any individual what he/she likes to buy." But there is a stronger tenor of "we are using objective ways of sifting the good stuff from the junk...so don't waste your money on the stuff we've deem sub-par."

So it seems to me, if anything, there is a stronger sense of trying to direct people's purchases from the measurement crowd vs the subjective reviewing crowd.

But, anyway, it seems to me that throwing out the claim many youtubers are trying to tell people what to buy sort if indiscriminately indites the reviewers, many of whom would rightly ask "Is he talking about me? If so he's got me wrong." But since you don't mention any names it seems an opportunity to raise a sort of "I'm better than them in this regard" without us knowing whether you've strawmanned whoever you have in mind in the first place.

TL;DR
Viewers often come to me just asking for "the answer." I don't know which is the best speaker. I can only hope to help them educate themselves enough to make a better decision for themselves. What's "best" for everyone is different.

Great question. The answer is that comment comes from my experience with videos I've made on my channel. I'm talking about me.

I have broken down reviews into 3 parts before: a binaural sound demo using calibrated mics, one where I just cover my measurements, and another video that's mostly my subjective opinion. You might have guessed that the subjective one gets the most views. No surprise, we're human and we want to hear the jist of it all. I do it too. I come here and just want to see what kind of panther a product gets.

TOP 5 LISTS/BUYING GUIDES
I have summary videos that are the easiest to make because I just take my favorite speakers that I've previously reviewed at certain price points and summarize my overall findings on each speaker. Those are extremely popular videos. I get it. People might not have the time or desire to watch reviews, learn about audio, they just want to know which product to buy. They want to be told. They want the shortcut answer.

So in the end, maybe I'm complaining about you, the viewer? Maybe I'm frustrated with my own inability to make educational information more entertaining. Maybe I'm am thinking about a specific reviewer when I say something. This was just a rant. Me just saying whatever came to mind. If it resonates with others, maybe there's something there. But why can't that person own their own meaning of why it resonates with them. I know why it resonates with me, but that's just me. If you and I like the same song, we will have different memories attached to that song. If I say, it makes me feel XYZ way, and you also feel that way, does it matter what my backstory is? I don't think so. That's why I don't care to specify which reviewers I had in mind. It could've been a few at the same time. If I wanted to call a specific person out, I would have.

 

[joentell]

@amirm said what I wanted to say more eloquently https://www.youtube.com/live/B2AflXTTxgQ?feature=share&t=01h27m37s

 

[Spkrdctr]

. THe fact that most youtubers can't afford a Klippel doesn't matter...because a couple do have a klippel. The others can safely be ignored.

But do they turn it on?

 

[Spkrdctr]

Anyone mention the Sound Sommelier. I always check out his latest vids. Almost always beautiful equipment to see, nicely recorded, and no distracting sounds of talking.

Those Focals didn't sound right. The recording was way too bass heavy and the Focals faithfully rendered the excessive bass in the recording. I was surprised they didn't sound better. Oh well. Listening from a Youtube video is always pretty bad. Luckily my reference JBL Flip 5 did an awesome job for me sitting at my main listening position. I have to say that Flip 5 rocks! LOL