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Topping E50 Review (Balanced DAC)

ozlegend

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I bought a Topping E50 in this New Year sales after reading a review by a recording engineer whose views I tend to trust and then armirn’s excellent measurements on this forum. I would like to describe my subjective findings under 2 main areas:
1. how it compared to my previous Chord Qutest DAC (bettered)
2. the effected of a linear power supply (useful improvement)

(Please note that these observations are “in my humble opinion” but if you want double-blind listening tests please read no further. I am a physicist by training and have been designing & manufacturing loudspeakers for many years using both extensive measurements and listening to a wide range of music. My aim is try to achieve “like being there” at a live event and regularly attend unamplified concerts).

My previous Chord Qutest DAC was purchased (at a good price) in early 2019 also after I had read favourable reviews from people whose ears I tend to trust plus the measurements of amirn who rated it as the best at that time. At that time I thought the biggest change (from my previous Pro-ject S2 DAC) was greater ‘texture’ in the music - as though harmonic structure of the notes were more clearly defined and integrated but possibly due to the notes starting and stopping more quickly. There was also better stereo imaging, particularly depth, which is usually another sign of good micro-timing – something that Rob Watts focuses on in his FPGA chip designs for Chord.

However, compared to the Qutest I thought the Topping E50 sounded even more natural/full bodied in the midrange; deeper and tighter in the bass; and less edgy/more at ease in the treble – all without any apparent loss of resolution/detail or PRaT or of spatial imaging that were comparable to the Qutest.

I would have been very happy just to leave it at that but a colleague who is a symphony orchestra player and recording engineer said he had heard of useful improvements with a Topping D70 DAC using a linear power supply. I already had a DIY linear power supply (as shown) attached to my Qutest that had provided a modest improvement but had not moved it to the E50 because of different output leads needed – and because the consensus on this forum seemed to that a good SMPS such as the Samsumg phone charger I was using was more than adequate.

But curiosity got the better of me and I modified my linear power supply to a USB female output so I could run either the Qutest or E50. I thought the LPS improvements with the E50 were greater than with the Qutest with the notes seeming to stop and start even more quickly – leading to better timing and to better spatial resolution.

I repeat that these observations are personal and may differ from other people and other systems. The rest of my system was an HP Elite i7 computer running Jriver MC29 and 4 channels of the new Hypex NCx500 amplifier modules bi-amping Legend Kantu Be floorstanding speakers.

linear PS.jpg
 

BeeKay

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6C7354D8-CEDD-40C6-92CE-DFCD6C08B7C7.jpeg
Regarding pointless sighted shootouts I could contribute mine. Bought a E50/L50 stack a couple of weeks ago. Back then the E50 was powered by some Apple wallwart that’ was around. A bit later I added a P50 linear power supply from eBay I could not resist as it looked great and the price was too good to let someone else make the deal. For my ears through my DCA Aeon2 Noire there is no difference. Non, Nada, Zero. Nichts. But that’s only me. Doing a sighted test. Still, I love the looks.
 
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Blew

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But curiosity got the better of me and I modified my linear power supply to a USB female output so I could run either the Qutest or E50. I thought the LPS improvements with the E50 were greater than with the Qutest with the notes seeming to stop and start even more quickly – leading to better timing and to better spatial resolution.

I repeat that these observations are personal and may differ from other people and other systems. The rest of my system was an HP Elite i7 computer running Jriver MC29 and 4 channels of the new Hypex NCx500 amplifier modules bi-amping Legend Kantu Be floorstanding speakers.
I'm guessing you don't use balanced on the E50? I spent a lot of time testing various wall warts with my E50 when I first got it and used RCA out. Some power supplies sounded better than others, then I discovered that using a USB battery pack instead of a power supply was by far the best. After my TRS to XLR balanced cables finally arrived I discovered that using balanced cables and any of my previously tested wall warts sounded exactly the same as the battery pack. Ground loops and RFI are nasty!
 

BeeKay

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I'm guessing you don't use balanced on the E50? I spent a lot of time testing various wall warts with my E50 when I first got it and used RCA out. Some power supplies sounded better than others, then I discovered that using a USB battery pack instead of a power supply was by far the best. After my TRS to XLR balanced cables finally arrived I discovered that using balanced cables and any of my previously tested wall warts sounded exactly the same as the battery pack. Ground loops and RFI are nasty!
It’s balanced though (TRS into the L50). In my book the power cleaning circuits in the DAC don’t really care about what’s coming in.
 

ozlegend

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I'm guessing you don't use balanced on the E50? I spent a lot of time testing various wall warts with my E50 when I first got it and used RCA out. Some power supplies sounded better than others, then I discovered that using a USB battery pack instead of a power supply was by far the best. After my TRS to XLR balanced cables finally arrived I discovered that using balanced cables and any of my previously tested wall warts sounded exactly the same as the battery pack. Ground loops and RFI are nasty!
I use the balanced outputs from the E50 into the balanced inputs of the new NCx500 amplifier modules (that have extraordinary resolving power). The differences I hear between the SMPS and LPS are small and probably only important to someone obsessed by wringing the last drops of fidelity out of a sound reproduction chain to be more "like being there". I think the differences may be due to slightly improved timing that results in notes starting and stopping more quickly possible due to the LPS being able to supply changes in current more quickly.
 
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Blew

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I use the balanced outputs from the E50 into the balanced inputs of the new NCx500 amplifier modules (that have extraordinary resolving power). The differences I hear between the SMPS and LPS are small and probably only important to someone obsessed by wringing the last drops of fidelity out of a sound reproduction chain to be more "like being there". I think the differences may be due to slightly improved timing that results in notes starting and stopping more quickly possible due to the LPS being able to supply changes in current more quickly.
Interesting. I don't know enough about audio to understand why that would be, but I'd be very interested to know and whether it can be measured.

As I understand it, SMPS can introduce circuit noise due to the oscillation but the capacitors and noise isolation circuits in the DAC negate it. Meanwhile, LPS creates RFI which can impact nearby devices. Amir's measurements show imperceptible noise levels however. He doesn't mention which power supply he used but I believe it was his PC's USB port.

During my own testing, before I discovered the culprit being a ground loop/RFI, I found Apple USB chargers to sound better than Samsung and others. I read elsewhere that most of these chargers aren't designed to supply a reliably consistent level of power, which fluctuates and can have an audible impact on the DAC, and that Apple's are better than most in this regard. I found that some 1A chargers don't output 1A reliably, and I had better results with chargers rated 2A and above. As mentioned, I found the 3A battery pack to sound the best overall before I switched to balanced.

Are you able to test with an Apple USB charger >1A and/or a portable battery pack/power bank and compare?
 

ozlegend

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Unfortunately I don't have an Apple USB charger nor a portable battery pack.

I understand that LPS can generate RFI which is why in my DIY circuit shown I have taken what steps I can to reduce it - ferrite chokes/inductors on the inputs and outputs and capacitors across the switching diodes (that were 'fast' ones) plus high quality ballast/reservoir capacitors.

As I said I don't think the small difference I hear is due to changes in noise or distortion levels but rather timing/speed issues. However unlike armirn I don't have sensitive enough equipment to measure this - only equipment to measure the relatively high distortion levels plus other measurements (waterfall decay, group delay etc) on loudspeakers.
 
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Schlippwhip68

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Firmware update on MAC.

The firmware update of V1.06 is a correction of the behavior that the volume is maximized when the volume control that was in the initial E50 is set to the minimum of -99.

From the E50 Firmware Download page, click MAC to download and unzip the file.

The contents of the unzipped 210915_E50_V106 FOR MAC folder are

Topping USB DFU.app
This is the folder that contains the program for rewriting the firmware.

E50_FW1.06.bin
This is a data file written to E50.

readme.txt
This is a manual for firmware rewriting work.


Firmware rewrite execution procedure

Go to Topping USB DFU.app >> Contents >> Mac OS
Click ToriLogic USB DFU
ToriLogic USB DFU is the main body of the firmware rewriting tool.

After starting, specify the E50_FW1.06.bin file in the decompression destination folder and execute it.
Hi Toku
I downloaded 1.07 firmware update but Macos does not support the file so I cannot open it yet. I also cannot find the 1.06 update on Toppings website, will this be an issue or will everything be covered in 1.07? I also noticed in MacOS Ventura that the volume output is on maximum for the E50 and greyed out. Could this be an issue that the 1.06 update resolves or the 1.07? Any help here is greatly appreciated as when I am sttreaming from Apple Music the last minute of a song is suddenly dropping in sound quality, this happens randomly at the moment. I need a pro rar app to open the firmware file which I will have to buy from the app store unless anyone knows an alternative path.
 

Veri

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I also noticed in MacOS Ventura that the volume output is on maximum for the E50 and greyed out.
This is normal for any DAC that has its digital volume locked. A way around it is to use SoundSource or some app like it, to enable DSP and which will have its own 32-bit accurate volume control. As a bonus it makes EQing a breeze as well.
 

777

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What voltage regulator is that ?
 

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nikosidis

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I got a little curious about the linear PSU to use with this DAC. Until now I have used a normal 5v, 1A that came with some cell phone. Before considering to order the Topping linear PSU I started to read about it and it came through that what would be even better was a battery pack. I have one that output 1A so that was perfect. First I tried with my tube preamp. I know the tube pre. color the sound a little but I often like that. Later I use balanced outputs and used E50 as pre. directly to my Theta Amp. The result of the test is that I could hear no difference. Money saved :)
 
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enricoclaudio

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Hi Toku
I downloaded 1.07 firmware update but Macos does not support the file so I cannot open it yet. I also cannot find the 1.06 update on Toppings website, will this be an issue or will everything be covered in 1.07? I also noticed in MacOS Ventura that the volume output is on maximum for the E50 and greyed out. Could this be an issue that the 1.06 update resolves or the 1.07? Any help here is greatly appreciated as when I am sttreaming from Apple Music the last minute of a song is suddenly dropping in sound quality, this happens randomly at the moment. I need a pro rar app to open the firmware file which I will have to buy from the app store unless anyone knows an alternative path.

I can confirm that I was able to update the firmware for my E50 to 1.07 with my Mac Studio running macOS Ventura. Make sure you download the flashing tool for macOS and not the one for Windows. I don't have a RAR app and it works for me. Just in case, here are the files in a ZIP folder which you can simply open it with Preview.
 

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bogi

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I got a little curious about the linear PSU to use with this DAC. Until now I have used a normal 5v, 1A that came with some cell phone. Before considering to order the Topping linear PSU I started to read about it and it came through that what would be even better was a battery pack. I have one that output 1A so that was perfect. First I tried with my tube preamp. I know the tube pre. color the sound a little but I often like that. Later I use balanced outputs and used E50 as pre. directly to my Theta Amp. The result of the test is that I could hear no difference. Money saved :)
Battery power banks contain similar switching mode voltage regulator like phone chargers because batteries are not able to provide constant voltage and switching mode regulators are cheap. Power banks are not primarily intended as power supplies for audio devices. They are mostly used to charge phones or other battery powered devices when their battery becomes discharged.

Linear power supplies don't generate that switching noise. You cannot judge effect of using LPS by substituting it with switching mode regulated power supply.

I didn't tell you that you should hear a difference with LPS. Your individual listening experience may differ from experience of others.
 

nikosidis

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Battery power banks contain similar switching mode voltage regulator like phone chargers because batteries are not able to provide constant voltage and switching mode regulators are cheap. Power banks are not primarily intended as power supplies for audio devices. They are mostly used to charge phones or other battery powered devices when their battery becomes discharged.

Linear power supplies don't generate that switching noise. You cannot judge effect of using LPS by substituting it with switching mode regulated power supply.

I didn't tell you that you should hear a difference with LPS. Your individual listening experience may differ from experience of others.
In Topping D90SE that I had before there is a switching PSU.
That is the reference Topping DAC.
I read that people got a huge upgrade when using a power bank to something like E50.
Like you say, people can have different experience but mainly it is voodoo science.
I think it would be fair to say that Topping would have recommended a Linear PSU to something like E50 it there really was an advantage over any other power source.
 

Veri

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I read that people got a huge upgrade when using a power bank to something like E50.
Like you say, people can have different experience but mainly it is voodoo science.
I think it would be fair to say that Topping would have recommended a Linear PSU to something like E50 it there really was an advantage over any other power source.
Yeah. Don't believe excited people on the internet claiming "huge" differences, basically.
 

bogi

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In Topping D90SE that I had before there is a switching PSU.
That is the reference Topping DAC.
I read that people got a huge upgrade when using a power bank to something like E50.
Like you say, people can have different experience but mainly it is voodoo science.
I think it would be fair to say that Topping would have recommended a Linear PSU to something like E50 it there really was an advantage over any other power source.
I did not tell that all switching power supplies generate noise which could have audible impact when used with some audio devices. It is possible to design switching power supplies to filter noise correctly. Examples are iFi iPower, some Chord, Mola-Mola, Benchmark products. I don't have experience with Topping D90SE but of course its power source may be designed correctly. But when you use a power bank which is designed for general use, not specifically for audio, one would not expect noise filtering level which is not required for usual power bank use cases. Some power bank model may be better in this regard than other.

If a concrete power bank model did not bring you improvement, of course don't use it.

What I wanted to tell in my previous post was: Do not relate your experience with a concrete power bank model to LPS power supplies in general.

I found as common in your two last posts that you are doing generalizations. Of course, one wants to understand things. I too. Generalizations, when applied correctly, are useful. But to generalize too much is not helpful. Reality is not so easy in audio world. Especially when noise topic appears in the mix you will find very different user opinions. I understand your reaction - it really may be confusing. One would like to find a rule. But it is not always so easily possible. Trust your ears, but do not generalize too much based on this. Your listening experience is not easily transferable to others. Others may use different devices than you and theirs ears and brain, where the listening chain really ends, is not yours. Simply accept these differences.
 

VVR

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Hello,
New member here. And E50 owner.
I experimented a little with power supplies, because I don't trust online claims, especially unsupported by measurements.
In my setup I tried linear supply and had huge amount of noise. Most likely in result of major ground loops. One coming from my computer on long USB cable and one through the power supply ground. When I disconnected the safety earth in the power supply noise disappeared. However, I don't think sound improved
My point is that class II power supply (no safety ground) are your best bet to avoid noise issues, which obviously would affect the sound. Actually, my approach and next thing to try is to buy medical grade class II power adapter. They are better balanced and have minimal leakage to ground. Normally standard power adapter will have at least 0.25mA leakage current. Medical grade supplies have no more than 0.1mA. If not for sound, I think generally the E50, and any DAC with external power for that matter, will work better.
 

nikosidis

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If you get ground loop it will for sure be a problem.
Other than that we are really against science if we think we can hear differences in a DACs PSU.
Never seen any measure proof or any blind test.
A friend got the new E70 Velvet now. I will borrow it and use some time to really test if I can notice any difference in sound from E50.
I sold my D90SE before I could compare it to E50 side by side. I had D90SE for quite some time and all I can tell is that I did not feel that E50 changed the sound to better or worse.
 
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