Topping E50 Review (Balanced DAC)

[Jose Teixeira]

@Jose Teixeira I works buy the SMSL D-6. It sounds the same as the E50, has both RCA and TRS Bal outputs like the E50, plus Bluetooth input, and costs 30€ less at 170€.
Not to mention an integrated power supply, so you don't have an external brick laying around somewhere.

Thanks for your reply.
The SMSL D-6 uses the new AKM 4493S same as the new Topping E30II.
I guess they are one step behind to the other´s two on sound quality.
Some reviews says the sound on the highs cause some fatigue on the D-6.
Thanks

 

[Veri]

Thanks for your reply.
The SMSL D-6 uses the new AKM 4493S same as the new Topping E30II.
I guess they are one step behind to the other´s two on sound quality.
Some reviews says the sound on the highs cause some fatigue on the D-6.
Thanks

They used to say the opposite, about the ESS chips. The AKM is supposed to be the soft sounding one
Almost as if these subjective things people say can't be relied upon

 

[staticV3]

I guess they are one step behind to the other´s two on sound quality.

They're not. All of these DACs sound the same: 100% transparent.
Every report you read of DAC A having fatiguing highs, DAC B lacking bass impact, etc etc come from a variety of biases. They're not actually there.
I know it may be hard to swallow, but science has long reached the point where any differences and improvements are of purely academic nature and not something that the human ear can perceive.

 

[wanghao]

It's stated in the E50 manual that dac mode sets the volume to fixed 0 db. Does that mean there's no difference in how the dac runs when running in dac mode vs pre-amp mode volume set to 0db?

preamp mode 0db=dac mode
These are all processed the same way.

 

[nikosidis]

I tried Topping E50 against the new E70 Velvet yesterday. Our findings was quite obvious regarding the sound differences. I tried lot of DACs and they mostly sound different. People that say all DACs sound the same need to really do the listening test and not only look at the numbers. What we noticed quite fast was a more present bass with the Velvet DAC. This bass output would be cool on typical hard rock or metal recordings but mostly it cluttered the sound.
On great recording the bass sounded a little boomy. E50 in my system sound much tighter in the bass. We did not move the speakers. With different amp, room or speakers I am sure this bass could be tamed on the Velvet DAC. Since this happened E50 sounded more transparent, detailed. In my setup I prefer E50 on most recordings to the Velvet DAC.

 

[staticV3]

Our findings was quite obvious regarding the sound differences. I tried lot of DACs and they mostly sound different. People that say all DACs sound the same need to really do the listening test and not only look at the numbers.

What controls were put in place for the listening test?
Level matched to how many dB difference?
Blind or double blind?
What was the dead time between switching DACs?
How many repetitions?
What was the confidence score for picking out the right DAC?

 

[Veri]

I'm sure they just switched the DAC, listened carefully....

and let their imagination go wild.

 

[nikosidis]

What controls were put in place for the listening test?
Level matched to how many mV difference?
Blind or double blind?
What was the dead time between switching DACs?
How many repetitions?
What was the confidence score for picking out the right DAC?

I assumed that since both are Topping DACs they have the same output.
To be sure we used a Radioshack sound pressure meter and it confirmed this.
We had to switch the COAX cable between the DACs so there where dead time.
No blind test but the test was repeated several times on different music tracks and the findings
where quite obvious. I would have no problem to hear the differences in a blind test.

 

[staticV3]

People that say all DACs sound the same need to really do the listening test and not only look at the numbers.

No what people actually need to do is learn how to do proper listening tests and not present the result of shoddy work as fact.
Here's a video to get you started: Link

 

[staticV3]

I assumed that since both are Topping DACs they have the same output.

To be sure we used a Radioshack sound pressure meter

No blind test but the test was repeated several times

 

[nikosidis]

No what people actually need to do is learn how to do proper listening tests and not present the result of shoddy work as fact.
Here's a video to get you started: Link

The problem is that unless it is controlled by NASA people say that the blind test was cheated or something. It is a lot of work to do a proper blind test. Maybe I will do it.

 

[Veri]

I assumed that since both are Topping DACs they have the same output.

The E50 has 4.25Vrms output as measured in this review, the E70V has 4V out but can be configured to 5Vrms out max. So no. It's very likely you are hearing the differences between slight volume level mismatch. Which is quite normal, and does not attribute any special properties to these DACs. It's just a flawed test. Purely objectively speaking.. you can keep whichever you seem to like most of course. You'll just have a hard time convincing anyone of that 'velvet bass' etc. It's very, very doubtful there is such a thing.

 

[nikosidis]

So I need some special equipment to be sure that the levels are matched?

 

[R.Vic]

The E50 has 4.25Vrms output

By the way, how much is 1V in decibels?

 

[nikosidis]

The E50 has 4.25Vrms output as measured in this review, the E70V has 4V out but can be configured to 5Vrms out max. So no. It's very likely you are hearing the differences between slight volume level mismatch. Which is quite normal, and does not attribute any special properties to these DACs. It's just a flawed test. Purely objectively speaking.. you can keep whichever you seem to like most of course. You'll just have a hard time convincing anyone of that 'velvet bass' etc. It's very, very doubtful there is such a thing.

We used RCA output. I put the sound meter on the table so it did not move and it did show the same db output from pink noise. 4V is balanced output. Do you know the differences regarding RCA output? I will have a look at the Velvet settings.

 

[staticV3]

So I need some special equipment to be sure that the levels are matched?

A multimeter would be a good start. They cost like $15.

 

[nikosidis]

A multimeter would be a good start. They cost like $15.

I have that. Just tell me how to use it and I will test.

 

[staticV3]

By the way, how much is 1V in decibels?

0dBV or 2.218dBu

 

[staticV3]

I have that. Just tell me how to use it and I will test.

Use Room EQ Wizard to generate a 60Hz, 0dBFS sine tone and save that as wav. Then play it just like you did the test tracks and measure the AC voltages at the output of the two DACs. Then, use software volume control to reduce the output of the louder DAC until it's identical to the quieter DAC. Use 0.1 or even 0.01dB steps.
For this to work, you need two separate audio players. One for each DAC.

 

[IAtaman]

I tried Topping E50 against the new E70 Velvet yesterday. Our findings was quite obvious regarding the sound differences. I tried lot of DACs and they mostly sound different. People that say all DACs sound the same need to really do the listening test and not only look at the numbers. What we noticed quite fast was a more present bass with the Velvet DAC. This bass output would be cool on typical hard rock or metal recordings but mostly it cluttered the sound.
On great recording the bass sounded a little boomy. E50 in my system sound much tighter in the bass. We did not move the speakers. With different amp, room or speakers I am sure this bass could be tamed on the Velvet DAC. Since this happened E50 sounded more transparent, detailed. In my setup I prefer E50 on most recordings to the Velvet DAC.

That is very interesting. I am sure you know this, but allow me to repeat for sake of clarity: simply put, a DAC takes a binary number, say 010010101 for example, and converts it into a voltage, say 0.61V. If it can be proven that two DACs produce same voltages for same binary numbers provided, do you think there would be any reason to think they would sound different?