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$30K Budget - On the quest for my "end game" speaker

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MKR

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Well, that's an O'fer for my recs, which is OK.

I would add that the Boenicke speakers I have heard were brilliant. And I have always been a fan of Sonus Faber. I heard the top Revel model at an audio show a few years ago and it sounded fantastic. I'd also say the same about Magico.

@dtaylo1066 I do appreciate the recommends! Had not really considered Sonus Faber as I think you can do better for the money, but they are beautiful speakers. As to German Physiks, not really an omni radiation fan, but I will give them a second look to be sure (I suspect the model that would work for me will be out of my price range). And will take a look at Boenicke, never heard of them before. Thank you
 
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MKR

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Spending OPM is enjoyable. So… what’s the current short list?
@mglobe Spend away! :)

Current short list, in no particular order (kinda becoming a "long" list LOL):
Genelec 8361A + W371A
Kef Blade Two Meta
KEF Reference 5 Meta
Revel Performa F328Be
Salk BePure3
JBL M2
JBL 4367
Linkwitz LX521
Legacy Aeris
Tom Danley Signature (not yet released)
Meyer X-40
Vimberg Mino
Vivid Audio Kaya 90
GGNTKT M3 (not yet released)
O Audio Verdande (not yet released)
AudioKinesis Azel Tower and Jazzy 212
Illusio Audio Alana
Alta Audio Hestia 2

Removed from list for various reasons:
Revel Salon 2 (sadly discontinued)
Genelec 8351B + W371A
D&D 8C
Neumann KH420
Kii Three + BXT
Magico A5
Revel Performa F228Be
Perlisten S7t
Vivid Audio Kaya 45
 
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Kal Rubinson

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@mglobe Spend away! :)

Current short list, in no particular order (kinda becoming a "long" list LOL):
Genelec 8361A + W371A
Kef Blade Two Meta
KEF Reference 5 Meta
Revel Performa F328Be
JBL M2
JBL 4367
Linkwitz LX521
Legacy Aeris
Tom Danley Signature (not yet released)
Meyer X-40
Vimberg Mino
Vivid Audio Kaya 90
GGNTKT M3 (not yet released)
O Audio Verdande (not yet released)
AudioKinesis Azel Tower and Jazzy 212
Illusio Audio Alana
Alta Audio Hestia 2

Removed from list for various reasons:
Revel Salon 2 (sadly discontinued)
Genelec 8351B + W371A
D&D 8C
Neumann KH420
Kii Three + BXT
Magico A5
Revel Performa F228Be
Perlisten S7t
Vivid Audio Kaya 45
Your list seems to be getting longer, not shorter. Not a good trend.
 
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MKR

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Your list seems to be getting longer, not shorter. Not a good trend.
Yeah, yeah, I know LOL ... Too many great recommendations from folks. My sense is not much more to add (yeah, famous last words), so from here should start to get shorter (I hope), as will be very difficult to audition all of these (but I will try if they all stay on the list when I start actual auditions early next year!)
 

Ilkless

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@dtaylo1066 I do appreciate the recommends! Had not really considered Sonus Faber as I think you can do better for the money, but they are beautiful speakers. As to German Physiks, not really an omni radiation fan, but I will give them a second look to be sure (I suspect the model that would work for me will be out of my price range). And will take a look at Boenicke, never heard of them before. Thank you

Modern high-end Sonus Faber has pretty good engineering, but usually a rising treble that works only in really absorptive rooms over a longer listening distance. I wouldn't take it above the KEFs, Vimberg or Vivid if you are looking for passives. Those are well engineered but also have great fit and finish and industrial design.

Forget about German Physiks and Boenicke - those are cottage industry speakers made for those who fetishise speakers that are unusual and exotic just for the sake of being such, without any demonstrable performance benefit (and significant compromises). It's for those gatekeepers who think the more unusual and exotic the design is, the harder it is to enjoy, the harder it is to dial in, the rarer it is, the smaller the community that can bother with it, the better performance it must have. For the kind of audiophile who wants to signal their status as a connoisseur of idiosyncratic and inscrutable equipment.

Of your shortlist I would go with the Genelecs and be done with it if you can bear with the aesthetics, though there is much appeal in the aesthetics of some of the passive speakers you are considering. They are have the most sophisticated and innovative package - from drivers to driver configuration to integration of them, as borne out in the exemplary smoothness of dispersion. Not to mention GLM. They also have a aftersales support network that no niche brand can compete with.
 

benanders

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Some years ago, right after I moved away from my home country, I visited many audio shops for listening. I’d relocated to one of the most condensed hifi/home audio retail-shops-city on earth. That sudden exposure overload, combined with new living standard constraints, led me to reconsider much about how I felt home audio should be perceived and pursued.

That disclaimer out of the way, space was at a premium and a dedicated listening room would not be a thing for me (never been a goal, anyway - of course no offense to those of you who value it). Permanent room treatments were not an option, as I didn’t want to buy property. You get crafty when up against those odds. You also make sure to listen lots before you buy, as the consensus here seems to be already. Good!

Some of the be$t high-enders I encountered were [to me] not “all that” if a true life sound is desired (i.e., comparing the speakers’ real-world results to a night club, orchestra hall, stadium concert, ukulele in a coffee shop…).
Some of the most profe$$ionally-kitted spaces showed amazing soundstage / imaging, using the luxury of space and gear valued into the million$ [USD], but for all practical purposes seemed like really good parlor trick performers.

I came to realize after sampling a bunch of speakers, amps, etc. and also a lot of original source material (original production master tapes played directly on original Studer mastering decks) that it’s simply most important for a speaker to bend air in ways you prefer. It seems like an oversimplification but it really isn’t, despite the diversity of engineering and levels of QC that can go into high-end stuff.

A recent write-up kept going back to issues seemingly borne of oversized rooms compromising the performance of multiple speaker models. We are talking some models far above the maximum price available for this thread’s purposes:


Most of those ballrooms probably have “kinder” ceilings than the OP’s - no vault - too. I’m not sure where the OP’s room choice is now, big vs. small, but I reiterate that should be pivotal in narrowing (or further expanding) the speaker options list.
If the big room is used, room acoustics could be seriously foreboding given how the kit will need to handle serious power, regardless of treatments. If the smaller room is used, speaker model choice becomes much more expansive but not necessarily more expensive, due to lower thresholds for almost all would-be confounding factors. I’m saying this assuming the challenge of managing point-source audio signals in either room, and treating either room with the assumption of never changing / moving that sacred Main Listening Position.
If multiple positions need to sound good, especially for cinema, point-source tech becomes decreasingly attractive ;)

I know, others feel differently; their senses are not mine, so that’s fine (and vice versa)!
 
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dtaylo1066

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Modern high-end Sonus Faber has pretty good engineering, but usually a rising treble that works only in really absorptive rooms over a longer listening distance. I wouldn't take it above the KEFs, Vimberg or Vivid if you are looking for passives. Those are well engineered but also have great fit and finish and industrial design.

Forget about German Physiks and Boenicke - those are cottage industry speakers made for those who fetishise speakers that are unusual and exotic just for the sake of being such, without any demonstrable performance benefit (and significant compromises). It's for those gatekeepers who think the more unusual and exotic the design is, the harder it is to enjoy, the harder it is to dial in, the rarer it is, the smaller the community that can bother with it, the better performance it must have. For the kind of audiophile who wants to signal their status as a connoisseur of idiosyncratic and inscrutable equipment.

Of your shortlist I would go with the Genelecs and be done with it if you can bear with the aesthetics, though there is much appeal in the aesthetics of some of the passive speakers you are considering. They are have the most sophisticated and innovative package - from drivers to driver configuration to integration of them, as borne out in the exemplary smoothness of dispersion. Not to mention GLM. They also have a aftersales support network that no niche brand can compete with.

I was quite impressed when I auditioned some Boenicke speakers at a past Rocky Mountain Audio Fest. Does he have a boutique and eccentric approach? I would tend to agree, but damn they sounded good and imaging was most impressive.

Speakers tend to be more personal in choice and listenting perceptions than other components, IMHO. Joseph speakers have impressed me, as well. As have Opera.
 
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Ilkless

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I have heard the W8 and W5 and both were incoherent and the W5 in particular had a prominent midrange resonance, which bears out in these German measurements.
boenicke-audio-w5-lautsprecher-stereo-36510.jpg
 

goskers

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I have owned a lot of gear when I look back on it. Geddes, JBL M2, Salon2 all of which are considered top tier. I decided to invest in the Genelec 8361 after the measurements and info provided here on ASR.
I have not been able to compare directly against the above listed. What I can say is that these disappear better than anything I have been around. They are not fancy in anyway and I mean that as a compliment. The brilliance of the cabinet design, driver design and overall integration and GLM makes these what I consider my last stop.
 

mglobe

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I have heard the W8 and W5 and both were incoherent and the W5 in particular had a prominent midrange resonance, which bears out in these German measurements.
boenicke-audio-w5-lautsprecher-stereo-36510.jpg
That’s not a pretty sight.
 

McGillroy

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Strauss SE-MF-4 should be within budget. Passive mastering monitors. Good enough for Sony mastering studios and probably pretty nice with the right amps driving them.
 

TimW

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You're in the enviable position of considering high end speakers people like me have never heard of. If I were to find myself in that position, the type of speaker I'd be most interested in is the ones with active directivity control. You just can't currently get that technology without spending several grand. It just doesn't seem like uber high end drivers and crossover components in a super solid box is that much better than the same style of design in a cheaper variation (looking at the Vimberg and Salk designs). However directivity control down into the lower octaves seems like it could result in a noticeably improved listening experience due to reduced room interaction. For that reason I would be most interested in the Genelec and GGNTKT offerings since the D&D and Kii is off the list. If I were spending that much I would also prefer something easy to use and setup.
 

umbral

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@mglobe Spend away! :)

Current short list, in no particular order (kinda becoming a "long" list LOL):
Genelec 8361A + W371A
Kef Blade Two Meta
KEF Reference 5 Meta
Revel Performa F328Be
Salk BePure3
JBL M2
JBL 4367
Linkwitz LX521
Legacy Aeris
Tom Danley Signature (not yet released)
Meyer X-40
Vimberg Mino
Vivid Audio Kaya 90
GGNTKT M3 (not yet released)
O Audio Verdande (not yet released)
AudioKinesis Azel Tower and Jazzy 212
Illusio Audio Alana
Alta Audio Hestia 2

Removed from list for various reasons:
Revel Salon 2 (sadly discontinued)
Genelec 8351B + W371A
D&D 8C
Neumann KH420
Kii Three + BXT
Magico A5
Revel Performa F228Be
Perlisten S7t
Vivid Audio Kaya 45

Do not waste your time and money with big brand names where the original designer / audio engineer has died long time ago ! It's just crap all made in China anyway by incompetent people who have no relationship with the original creator.

Get an active speaker Airpulse A100 from Phil Jones (who is alive and makes them in the biggest Chinese factory that makes speakers) + a SVS PB 2000 PRO (or dual sub) or other quality subwoofer and call it a day.


Give me € 8.099 euros for the enlightening help i gave you :) or buy me a Haken Instrument 76 and sent it to my address (you can pm me) :)

The Airpulse A100 has true ribbon twitter + underhung woofer (99% of speakers do not have underhung but overhung) (read more here : https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/airpulse-a300 )

You need to pay 10 times the price so around 10 000 euros to get marginal increase in sound quality.

Thanks !
 

mglobe

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Do not waste your time and money with big brand names where the original designer / audio engineer has died long time ago ! It's just crap all made in China anyway by incompetent people who have no relationship with the original creator.

Get an active speaker Airpulse A100 from Phil Jones (who is alive and makes them in the biggest Chinese factory that makes speakers) + a SVS PB 2000 PRO (or dual sub) or other quality subwoofer and call it a day.


Give me € 8.099 euros for the enlightening help i gave you :) or buy me a Haken Instrument 76 and sent it to my address (you can pm me) :)

The Airpulse A100 has true ribbon twitter + underhung woofer (99% of speakers do not have underhung but overhung) (read more here : https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/airpulse-a300 )

You need to pay 10 times the price so around 10 000 euros to get marginal increase in sound quality.

Thanks !
Those don’t look horrible, but they don’t appear to be anywhere near the “end game” type of speakers the OP is looking for.
 

ahofer

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My end-game speaker is always the one I just bought, and nobody should dare question it.
 

mglobe

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@mglobe Spend away! :)

Current short list, in no particular order (kinda becoming a "long" list LOL):
Genelec 8361A + W371A
Kef Blade Two Meta
KEF Reference 5 Meta
Revel Performa F328Be
Salk BePure3
JBL M2
JBL 4367
Linkwitz LX521
Legacy Aeris
Tom Danley Signature (not yet released)
Meyer X-40
Vimberg Mino
Vivid Audio Kaya 90
GGNTKT M3 (not yet released)
O Audio Verdande (not yet released)
AudioKinesis Azel Tower and Jazzy 212
Illusio Audio Alana
Alta Audio Hestia 2

Removed from list for various reasons:
Revel Salon 2 (sadly discontinued)
Genelec 8351B + W371A
D&D 8C
Neumann KH420
Kii Three + BXT
Magico A5
Revel Performa F228Be
Perlisten S7t
Vivid Audio Kaya 45
When I look at the data, specifically the predicted in-room, the JBL’s seem to have a common FR that is has less slope to it than the KEF’s, Genelecs, and Kiki’s. I would think that would make the JBL’s sound brighter. I think my listening preference is more towards the KEF/Kii/Genelec response. I’m not a fan however of the visual design of the Genelec line of speakers.
 
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kongwee

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Avalon Acoustic PM1, almost a full range speaker. Really like the detail, pinpoint soundstaging under it's 2C3D setup.
 

umbral

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What??? Good joke man. I have Edifier S3000 Pro, and I think it's not bad sound, but nothing more.

Edifier is the largest Chinese factory, however Airpulse is made by Phil Jones and by Platinum Audio Systems (his company) on a completely different production line inside the factory. Edifier produces cheaper speakers, multimedia and PC. However the drivers and components and circuit design and the patents Phil Jones has, are not used in the much lower quality of Edifier products, compared to high end Airpulse brand.

There is no comparison between Edifier & Airpulse. They just have a Joint Venture company called Platinum Audio Systems, because Phil Jones is friend with the Owner & President of Edifier factory. And that is about it.

The smallest speaker the Airpulse A80 costs almost as the biggest S3000 PRO which is 3 times cheaper than Airpulse A300 PRO.

I know the theory, but the harmonics cannot be predicted or simulated, unfortunately also the timbre is not very easy to adjust, it's an art, it's not just about distortions.

The Edifier S3000 PRO has port noise for example, cheap driver, no profesional acustic insulation and because the difference from twitter to the woofer of 6.5" is too big you can hear it disconnected compared to speakers that have mid-range of 5".

My advice sell your S3000 PRO, buy a smaller but more expensive A100 add 1 sub-woofer. It will be night and day.
By the way the S3000 PRO twitter has a cheap replica of the twitter used by Phil Jones on : http://www.airpulseaudio.com/en/product/silver-reference-1 because he allowed them to use his patent, however it is not of the same quality as that 6000 dollars speaker.

The twitter used on Airpulse is from their own Airpulse 7001 flagship which costs 14 000 euro.
Airpulse A100 and Airpulse line mass produced has 95% of the sound of the Airpulse 7001 for a fraction of the cost ! They said it themselves.

That means you buy a 898 euros set of speakers or less for the value of 13300 euros. (95%)
It would be pointless to buy anything else really.

No joke. And the S3000 PRO is crap. The S2000 PRO MKIII with 5.5" sounds better despite having the same crappy components.
 
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