Anyone see this train wreck in Stereophile?

[Ilkless]

I think there is this misunderstanding that putting measurements/research first would make for much less variety and personality in the speaker market. I disagree. This neglects the fact that measurement focused designs appear to be a lot more diverse in the driver types and configurations they employ than the broader market. There is still a lot of room to play with directivity pattern, max SPL, time alignment, phase response and tonal balance while keeping within the minimum standard of smooth directivity and generally smooth FR/distortion. We have great coaxials from KEF/Technics/TAD, the Genelec coaxs + slot loaded woofers, CBT arrays, straight line arrays, Synergy horns, SEOS waveguides, Apple Homepod omni horns, a BMR as used in the Philharmonic BMR, beamforming to various degrees by Kii, DD and GGNTKT, the Grimani waveguide, MBL omnis just OTOH.

Clearly much more diversity and innovation than artisan types haphazardly slapping drivers together into a veneered box.

 

[dtaylo1066]

If I had 6K to spend on a speaker this would not be on my list. On top of a lack of state-of-the-art measured performance, you'd have to look at this ugly thing every day and every time you listen to music. Ugh. Oh, well, beauty is in the eye...

 

[Robin L]

The same could be said of neutral/accurate speakers.

Given the biggest variable in terms of sonic quality are the recordings themselves, neutral speakers will "tell you the truth" about awful recordings...by showing how awful they sound.

There is often an implicit or explicit stance, used by those who purchase based on "accuracy first," that speakers that depart from a certain measurement paradigm, that are colored in some way, will be a source of dissatisfaction. Yet audiophiles have found satisfaction, some quite long lasting, from speaker designs of all types, including many that would be rejected by most ASR members.

*(Certainly we have the work by Toole et all about how certain speaker measurements generally predict scores in their blind tests. It's great that data exists and totally reasonable if an individual wants to use that data to guide his own purchase. However, the extent to which that actually translates in to predicting user satisfaction in the "real world" doesn't seem to exist at this point, and the number of audiophiles deriving long term satisfaction from a wide array of speaker types suggests it might not. That's the messiness of life for you).

I'm one of those folks who wants to hear the warts 'n' all. Better an unadorned old tape via a digital source than a gooped up LP via tubes 'n' turntables.

YMMV, obviously.

 

[MakeMineVinyl]

Very smooth.

 

[SIY]

Translation: "How dare you call my baby ugly!"

"Breathtaking!"

 

[Vacceo]

Correct.
You don’t know.
You have no know clue until you’ve heard Volti or any other speaker. Troglodyte you the mantra.
8 years of ownership playing every possible genre from small scale to large, acoustic to electronic realistically is a tribute to these fine speakers.
That ASR stupidly disses anyone who offers a different take on the hobby, smells like religious zealots.
As I’ve discovered, you and your cohorts on this site spew your dogma over the human experience, having no idea that you are the ones limited by your narrow primitive reliance on your “measurements”, DICTATING, without evidence, how electronics and speakers will sound without even making the effort to hear them. The definition of lazy. The activity of cultism.

I don't believe in god, so you can guess how much I believe in the validity of your perceptions.

 

[ahofer]

"DICTATING, without evidence" lol

 

[blueone]

One issue with speakers like this Volti is that they will dictate the choice of programme. Some recordings may be artificially enhanced, some may be rendered unlistenable.

Exactly. This was my complaint with the B&W 800Ds I auditioned some years back. When they were good they were mesmerizing. Female voices seemed to be their best demo material. For solo piano recordings, especially those I made myself, colorations were easy to perceive. Symphony recordings were highly variable; some awesome, some sounding "different" than on more neutral speakers. And the dealer seemed to know it too, because he had several "well-chosen" CDs (as in "you need to hear these on the 800s") ready to go.

 

[Vacceo]

Exactly. This was my complaint with the B&W 800Ds I auditioned some years back. When they were good they were mesmerizing. Female voices seemed to be their best demo material. For solo piano recordings, especially those I made myself, colorations were easy to perceive. Symphony recordings were highly variable; some awesome, some sounding "different" than on more neutral speakers. And the dealer seemed to know it too, because he had several "well-chosen" CDs (as in "you need to hear these on 800s) ready to go.

If they cannot play well whatever you play, they are not good speakers.

Guys, take a Carcass record (Heartwork is a good choice) and let those dealers blush when they realize it's not Diana Krall.

 

[MattHooper]

Exactly. This was my complaint with the B&W 800Ds I auditioned some years back. When they were good they were mesmerizing. Female voices seemed to be their best demo material. For solo piano recordings, especially those I made myself, colorations were easy to perceive. Symphony recordings were highly variable; some awesome, some sounding "different" than on more neutral speakers. And the dealer seemed to know it too, because he had several "well-chosen" CDs (as in "you need to hear these on the 800s") ready to go.

I've had similar experiences. I remember auditioning a pair of speakers that I liked in some ways, but overall wasn't super impressed. I'd played a large range of my own music selections. When I started indicating "I don't think these speakers are for me" the dealer did a "before you go, listen to these recordings" and he spun a few audiophile-type recordings (very cleanly recorded acoustic instruments). The sound actually was quite amazing with those tracks. But it was too late, the jig was up, I'd already heard them with the music I actually liked.

 

[MattHooper]

If they cannot play well whatever you play, they are not good speakers.

Is that claim in support of "purchase accurate speakers?" or "purchase whatever speakers sound good to you?"

If you play a recording that is of poor sound quality (e.g. thin, muddy, bright, whatever) on accurate speakers you should hear poor sound, right?
Otherwise they are not telling you the truth about the recording.

(I actually have sympathy with the idea a good speaker will "sound good for almost anything" you play on it. There's caveats involved there...but generally speaking in my set up I play a vast array of music and recordings, and I am very, very rarely dissatisfied with the sound).

 

[Vacceo]

Is that claim in support of "purchase accurate speakers?" or "purchase whatever speakers sound good to you?"

If you play a recording that is of poor sound quality (e.g. thin, muddy, bright, whatever) on accurate speakers you should hear poor sound, right?
Otherwise they are not telling you the truth about the recording.

(I actually have sympathy with the idea a good speaker will "sound good for almost anything" you play on it. There's caveats involved there...but generally speaking in my set up I play a vast array of music and recordings, and I am very, very rarely dissatisfied with the sound).

I do like records with terrible sound and poor recording. Reign in Blood from Slayer is no less monumental due to poor recording.

 

[MattHooper]

I think there is this misunderstanding that putting measurements/research first would make for much less variety and personality in the speaker market.

I think it's rather obvious it would be the case.

After all...look at the mammoth variety of speaker designs out there. It's astounding. Audiophile audio shows are a peek at this wild west of speaker design, with so many different idea on offer. Many (even most?) of which lots of ASRs reject as being poor sounding designs. (How many times have we seen folks here express having heard some expensive, exotic speaker and saying the sound sucked?)

There's an enormous amount of speakers out there that wouldn't pass the (general) ASR criteria, and hence yes there would be much less variety and personality if winnowed by that criteria.

I take your point that within the "minimum standard" you mention there is still room for a variety of designs. But nothing like the variety if you expand beyond that criteria, as we currently have in the audiophile world. Same goes for other components (e.g. amps).

And as I said, it appears that speakers that wouldn't "score near the top" (or would even score poorly) in ASR criteria terms have nonetheless been a source of great satisfaction for many audiophiles. (And many "regular music listeners").

Just pointing out how things get a bit messier "out in the wild."

And in pointing that out, in no way am I arguing against the approach that you and many others here would favor for evaluating loudspeakers, which allows for technical evaluation.

 

[MattHooper]

I do like records with terrible sound and poor recording. Reign in Blood from Slayer is no less monumental due to poor recording.

Ok, but the claim that your speakers "play that recording well" amounts to your subjective opinion, right? I mean, someone else may latch on to the fact it's, as you say, a poor recording and wouldn't be satisfied with the sound.

The implication then of your previous statement would seem to be that someone ought to choose speakers that make recordings "sound good to me" rather than some objective criteria (?)

 

[tomtoo]

I think it's rather obvious it would be the case.

After all...look at the mammoth variety of speaker designs out there. It's astounding. Audiophile audio shows are a peek at this wild west of speaker design, with so many different idea on offer. Many (even most?) of which lots of ASRs reject as being poor sounding designs. (How many times have we seen folks here express having heard some expensive, exotic speaker and saying the sound sucked?)

There's an enormous amount of speakers out there that wouldn't pass the (general) ASR criteria, and hence yes there would be much less variety and personality if winnowed by that criteria.

I take your point that within the "minimum standard" you mention there is still room for a variety of designs. But nothing like the variety if you go beyond that criteria. Same goes for other components (e.g. amps).

And as I said, it appears that speakers that wouldn't "score near the top" (or would even score poorly) in ASR criteria terms have nonetheless been a source of great satisfaction for many audiophiles. (And many "regular music listeners").

Just pointing out how things get a bit messier "out in the wild."

And in pointing that out, in no way am I arguing against the approach that you and many others here would favor for evaluating loudspeakers, which allows for technical evaluation.

Get a good linear good to eq speaker, and have all audiophile adventures you like to enjoy."

 

[blueone]

I've had similar experiences. I remember auditioning a pair of speakers that I liked in some ways, but overall wasn't super impressed. I'd played a large range of my own music selections. When I started indicating "I don't think these speakers are for me" the dealer did a "before you go, listen to these recordings" and he spun a few audiophile-type recordings (very cleanly recorded acoustic instruments). The sound actually was quite amazing with those tracks. But it was too late, the jig was up, I'd already heard them with the music I actually liked.

After about six years, I still remember the one CD track (which I brought) that actually made me blurt out "Holy shit!" when played on the 800Ds. It was the track "She's Got You" from what was then the latest Rhiannon Giddens album (Tomorrow Is My Turn). I'm a big Giddens fan, and it was like being in the room with her, a stunt the Salon2s never pulled off. It was just a great euphonic coloration from the 800Ds, but it was cool while it lasted.

The original Martin Logan Monoliths could do that with violins. Not so on piano solos, but Trevor Pinnock's The Four Seasons sounded so good I bought a copy of the CD the dealer was using, though not the Monoliths. The Salon2s do pretty well on that recording too, but in the late 1990s I had never heard speakers sound so good on strings before.

 

[Vacceo]

Ok, but the claim that your speakers "play that recording well" amounts to your subjective opinion, right? I mean, someone else may latch on to the fact it's, as you say, a poor recording and wouldn't be satisfied with the sound.

The implication then of your previous statement would seem to be that someone ought to choose speakers that make recordings "sound good to me" rather than some objective criteria (?)

I have listened to the same record on a recording studio that had the gear to see the frequencies in real time. Doing the same on my system rendered similar results.

It has a shitload of refections (drums in particular) and saturated sound. Still, it's a fantastic piece of art.

 

[MattHooper]

Get a good linear good to eq speaker, and have all audiophile adventures you like to enjoy."

You don't really think one can replicate the sound of all the different speakers out there with EQ, do you?

 

[tomtoo]

You don't really think one can replicate the sound of all the different speakers out there with EQ, do you?

No, but you can exploit a lot.
Whats your experience with peq a good speaker?

 

[MattHooper]

I have listened to the same record on a recording studio that had the gear to see the frequencies in real time. Doing the same on my system rendered similar results.

It has a shitload of refections (drums in particular) and saturated sound. Still, it's a fantastic piece of art.

This is a bit confusing though.

You say it's a poor recording. What makes it "poor" if not that it sounds "poor?"

If it sounds good on both your speakers and in a professional studio, why call it a "poor" recording?

(And then of course we are simply moving the subjective call to rating recordings...)