When I worked for Garrard

[watchnerd]

Audio Science Review is new to me! This interesting thread caught my attention as I am a great lover of idler wheel Garrard turntables. The beautiful Garrard 301 was a world class turntable used professionally by radio stations around the world and replaced by the uprated Garrard 401 in 1965 to be finally phased out in 1976. As well documented earlier the onset of new belt drive turntables from the likes of Linn and the emergence of direct drive from Japan made the top end Garrard look somewhat antiquated. Companies like Linn did a great job of marketing their turntables as being well engineered and in particular being quieter than idler wheel designs having lower rumble. However as Linn and the Japanese sales soared the idler wheel design, while close to extinction hung on . . . In particular there was a cult following of Garrard 301 owners in Japan who were buying up old 301 motor units in Britain. Mr Shindo was one of the great Garrard Gurus who made all sorts of worthwhile modifications to Garrard bearings, platters and plinths that improved their audible performance. That 301 cult following finally found its way to the USA and back to the UK. There are companies trading in the UK now who specialise in Garrard turntable and SMD acoustics even make a new idler wheel turntable. I believe that Garrard now belongs to SME Audio and they are most interested in idler wheels, so who knows. My personal 301 is a bit like Trigger's broom as its hard to tell what is original. The aluminium die-cast chassis has been replaced with a stronger machined one. The main bearings and housing are uprated to support a 10Kg platter made of precision machined stainless steel. The motor is an improved 401 unit being fed by a precious quartz PSU all set in a granite (soon to be slate) skeletal plinth using a 12 inch SME V-12 arm. It's a rather large turntable! The good old Garrard 301/401 designs live on and can sound incredibly good when set up properly.

View attachment 131909

Welcome!

I'm surprised at the arm choice.

When I see Garrards paired with SME arms, its usually either a vintage arm or one of the modern recreations, like the M2-12R.

That seems to go hand in hand with SPU or DL-103 cartridges.

 

[Burky57]

Welcome!

I'm surprised at the arm choice.

When I see Garrards paired with SME arms, its usually either a vintage arm or one of the modern recreations, like the M2-12R.

That seems to go hand in hand with SPU or DL-103 cartridges.

Thank you for the welcome. Correct most SME /Garrard combinations tend to feature traditional arms. While I have formerly enjoyed such combinations, over the past few years my Garrard 301 and 401 turntables have featured SME 312S, SME V-5 and more recently the SME V-12 arm. There is no reason why such a marriage shouldn't work and I personally believe SME V arms don't sound their best in turntables with highly sprung suspensions. It's fair to say the V-12 finds the enhanced Garrard an ideal platform, as it should. The audio performance gains offered by recent turntable upgrades such as the PSU and large mass platter have been beautifully presented by the V-12. Cartridge wise I am currently use a custom built Ortofon Cadenza Red.

 

[watchnerd]

I personally believe SME V arms don't sound their best with in turntables with highly sprung suspensions.

Uh oh.

My Michell Gyro brethren we will want to have a talk with you.

Full disclosure: I use an SME arm on my Gyro SE, but the M2-9R, not from the 309/IV/V series.

 

[Burky57]

Oh No! I need to hide LOL

 

[chekhonte]

I found a z2000b at a garage sale and picked it up. It’s in remarkable good condition and only needed some routine liberating. It does have one problem I’m not sure how to fix:

The pulley is driven by a rubber idler similar to the one pictured. It’s slightly warped on a small section of the edge which causes a thumping sound with every revolution. It sounds like a rapidly beating heart. It’s very quiet but still audible during during silent passages of music. The rubber is in good shape otherwise. Still very playable and no signs of cracking when flexed.

Is there a good way to straighten rubber?

 

[sarumbear]

I graduated Imperial College with a degree in Mechanical Engineering in 1971 having done an apprenticeship with David Brown Ltd. My intention had been to get a job with Aston Martin since my ambition was to design racing cars.

I graduated IC two years after you as an EE. I have done apprenticeship with the EMI factory in Hayes and at the Abbey Road recording studios. Upon graduation I worked at Abbey Road until 1980 when I moved to TV to work at the new Channel 4 television channel.

Edit: And I still own the 401+SME that my sister bought for me as a graduation gift

 

[Frank Dernie]

I found a z2000b at a garage sale and picked it up. It’s in remarkable good condition and only needed some routine liberating. It does have one problem I’m not sure how to fix:

The pulley is driven by a rubber idler similar to the one pictured. It’s slightly warped on a small section of the edge which causes a thumping sound with every revolution. It sounds like a rapidly beating heart. It’s very quiet but still audible during during silent passages of music. The rubber is in good shape otherwise. Still very playable and no signs of cracking when flexed.

Is there a good way to straighten rubber?

That is what happens if the TT is left with the idler tensioned against the motor shaft. I am no expert on repair to rubber, or even if it is possible I'm afraid, I'd be looking for a spare part myself. If I couldn't get one I would consider freezing it and turning down the rubber carefully centered in a lathe to just clean up.

 

[restorer-john]

That is what happens if the TT is left with the idler tensioned against the motor shaft. I am no expert on repair to rubber, or even if it is possible I'm afraid, I'd be looking for a spare part myself. If I couldn't get one I would consider freezing it and turning down the rubber carefully centered in a lathe to just clean up.

I've had success with going the opposite way with belts and pinch rollers. Heating the rubber, having previously rubbed in some Inox (not sure if it's sold outside Australia). Then clean the Inox off with methylated spirits.

I accidentally discovered Inox softens and swells rubber- I had rubber bands around the tin with inox rags and the bands kept getting thicker, softer and longer over a period of months. Too much and the rubber will become so soft it becomes easy to break. It's a balancing act for sure. I tried it on some very old, hard rubber mains leads and it completely resurrected the supple outer. Belts with kinks (from sitting around spindles) can be fixed the same way.

 

[0bs3rv3r]

One doesn't! No tracking force adjustment, either.

My recollection is that it had one of those cantilevers that you could flip depending on whether it was a stereo or mono record.

It did have tracking force adjustment - look hard and you'll see a little thumbwheel at the rear of the arm near the pivot.

Also, the original mono cartridges were turnover carts and the knob protruded out the front. The headshell is removeable, and stereograms came with two of them, and you plug the other headshell in for stereo. It didn't need to turnover , or flip, as there were no stereo 78s, so the end of the headshell was sealed like you see in the picture.

The flipover cantilever type was a common replacement when the original ones failed.

 

[anmpr1]

I found a z2000b... It does have one problem I’m not sure how to fix: The pulley is driven by a rubber idler similar to the one pictured. It’s slightly warped on a small section of the edge which causes a thumping sound with every revolution. Is there a good way to straighten rubber?

I don't know of any sure way, once the disc is deformed. A design feature on those players was a spring loaded lever that would disengage the idler wheel from the machined motor shaft, once the unit was switched off. This kept the rubber wheel from becoming deformed at the spot where the two met. However, if that mechanism failed, or if the machine lost power without going through the turn off cycle, the wheel could stay tightly pressed against the motor shaft, risking an indention at the point of contact. This may be what you have.

NOS Garrard idlers are pretty scarce. You can always find salvaged parts in the marketplace. Who knows about them, or what you are buying? I've also seen a few places on-line that claim to rebuild old idlers with new rubber, but I have no experience with them.

 

[Soniclife]

I've had success with going the opposite way with belts and pinch rollers. Heating the rubber,

A rubber o ring from our dishwasher got pinched and deformed, putting it in a mug of boiling water made it go back to as it should be, so I'm with you on the heat.

 

[chekhonte]

Thanks for the suggestions. I found a pro ject debut carbon on Facebook for 150 last night and got it. I’m going to try my hardest to fix this one and give it to a friend. I’m going to try boiled water if that forest work I’ll try using a hole drill and make a clamp out of plywood and hit it with a heat gun while it’s clamped

 

[Jmsent]

I found a z2000b at a garage sale and picked it up. It’s in remarkable good condition and only needed some routine liberating. It does have one problem I’m not sure how to fix:

The pulley is driven by a rubber idler similar to the one pictured. It’s slightly warped on a small section of the edge which causes a thumping sound with every revolution. It sounds like a rapidly beating heart. It’s very quiet but still audible during during silent passages of music. The rubber is in good shape otherwise. Still very playable and no signs of cracking when flexed.

Is there a good way to straighten rubber?

Get in contact with this company. They can put new rubber on the wheel for you.

Voice Of Music, V-M Audio Enthusiasts

Voice Of Music, V-M Audio Enthusiasts

www.thevoiceofmusic.com

 

[chekhonte]

Thanks for the suggestions. I found a pro ject debut carbon on Facebook for 150 last night and got it. I’m going to try my hardest to fix this one and give it to a friend. I’m going to try boiled water if that forest work I’ll try using a hole drill and make a clamp out of plywood and hit it with a heat gun while it’s clamped

I did the boiling water suggestion and soaked it for about 30 minutes. Most of the ripple was gone. I reattached it to the turntable and I could still feel a little bump and gently took some 300 sandpaper to the rubber edge while it was spinning and now there is no more bump. I’m considering it fixed.

 

[awi]

...i love the Zero 100 SB, but i got no Idea, how to speed it up. Maybe, you are able to help me. Belive me, i tried a lot...

It runs with 32.35 rpm, regardless, what belt i use. The newest one is tight, but i fear, a little bit too tiny. It measures 0,55 mm thickness and a diameter of 142 mm.
Would it be better, if the belt is thicker? Has anyone a recommendation for the right belt? Of course, the deck is completely cleand from old grease an lubricated carefully: Motorbearings, Platterbearing and the automatic start and shutt off.

Thank you very much!

Axel

 

[AnalogSteph]

If the motor has plenty of torque and all (sometimes the capacitor for the 90° phase will die) and turns freely even with some side load, I would suspect the pulley (spindle) diameter is off. Motor speed appears to be 1800 rpm, so get some calipers and a rule to measure the diameter of both pulley and platter where the belt runs and do the math.

Here...

Relube a Garrard Zero 100SB motor

My Garrard Zero 100SB sometimes runs slow. I tried adjusting the shaft pulley. Still sometimes fine and other times starts out slow. Then sometimes during a play the speed will warble then plays fine. It has a new belt. I'm thinking it might be old geese in the motor. is there a procedure to...

audiokarma.org

... applying thin layers of nail polish to the pulley until the diameter is right is being suggested. Not sure how durable that would be, but it seems more accessible than turning a new replacement part on a lathe.

 

[fordiebianco]

Well, my first computer at home was a Sinclair ZX-81 with 1K RAM

You and me, pal.

 

[fordiebianco]

How about Thorens? Was there a reason why you omitted Thorens?

My first 'proper' turntable with 15 was a Thorens 115. Gosh, that thing was indestructable and did years of DJ duty without complaints, carried from one party to another.

 

[awi]

If the motor has plenty of torque and all (sometimes the capacitor for the 90° phase will die) and turns freely even with some side load, I would suspect the pulley (spindle) diameter is off. Motor speed appears to be 1800 rpm, so get some calipers and a rule to measure the diameter of both pulley and platter where the belt runs and do the math.

Here...

Relube a Garrard Zero 100SB motor

My Garrard Zero 100SB sometimes runs slow. I tried adjusting the shaft pulley. Still sometimes fine and other times starts out slow. Then sometimes during a play the speed will warble then plays fine. It has a new belt. I'm thinking it might be old geese in the motor. is there a procedure to...

audiokarma.org

... applying thin layers of nail polish to the pulley until the diameter is right is being suggested. Not sure how durable that would be, but it seems more accessible than turning a new replacement part on a lathe.

Thanks for the fast reply! The player shows the same low speed at 45 rpm. So i suppose, it‘s the belt. The Start is powerfull. Enough torque for the platter. Maybe, I’ll try the nail varnIsh.