Recommendations please!

[btlancaster24]

Hello -

Almost a year and a half ago I purchased a Peachtree Nova 150 + Bluesound Node 2i. This is my first big purchase upgrading from the 30 year old Denon DRA-25 I inherited from my dad. After having giving this new amp / streamer a chance I’m regretting not having found this forum to get advice before my purchase. I would greatly appreciate it if anyone here would give me a good, better, best recommendation for an amp / streamer combo. Especially after reading the reviews on this site for the Node 2i and Peachtree Nova 300. And finding that they are poor. I’d really like to re-evaluate my stereo components and upgrade to something that is really gonna be worth what I’m paying for it. Then just sell what I have and start over. By the way, TIDAL is my preferred streaming service. And I don’t plan to build my own collection at this point.


Thanks.

 

[NTK]

Welcome to ASR!

Even though Amir's measured performances of the Peachtree Nova 300 and Bluesound Node weren't great, I doubt their flaws are audible under controlled blind listening tests.

When I looked at the Peachtree Nova 300 measurements (the 150 that you have was not reviewed here), its biggest flaw was with the DAC. In the standard 1 kHz test SINAD was dominated by distortions of 0.005% (mostly 2nd harmonic). The limit of THD detection by human is usually >0.1% when using the most sensitive signal with the most sensitive test method. With music, it is often >1%. The level of distortions from the Peachtree is far below audibility (>20x) and, IMHO, not a real concern. Signal-to-noise ratio of its speaker amplifier is in the green zone, and is therefore also more than adequate.

The Bluesound Node is similar -- technically poor THD which was still far below audibility. Amir also had issue with its useability. This combination of 2 flaws earned it the headless panther. As you have the unit, you can judge for yourself whether usability is a problem or not. THD isn't a real issue IMHO.

I highly doubt you'll hear any audible improvement with an upgrade, unless your power demand exceeds what the Peachtree amp can supply. The typical level of performance of DAC and amps these days is so far beyond our hearing capabilities, even "poorly" measured ones (relative to the state of the art performance) are often totally adequate.

 

[btlancaster24]

Thanks for your reply. I appreciate it.

 

[airgas1998]

ntk is spot on and you're kidding yourself if you think going with other combos you'll hear a vast improvement audibly. i have the new node n130 version, and use an ext dac (topping d90se-best measured on planet earth) because you know the texas instrument one in the node is garbage. guess what...i don't hear a difference...

 

[btlancaster24]

ntk is spot on and you're kidding yourself if you think going with other combos you'll hear a vast improvement audibly. i have the new node n130 version, and use an ext dac (topping d90se-best measured on planet earth) because you know the texas instrument one in the node is garbage. guess what...i don't hear a difference...

So, are you saying that you don’t hear a difference between using the DAC in the Node vs the external Topping DAC + the Node? But the DAC in the Node is garbage? I’m confused.

 

[btlancaster24]

Welcome to ASR!

Even though Amir's measured performances of the Peachtree Nova 300 and Bluesound Node weren't great, I doubt their flaws are audible under controlled blind listening tests.

When I looked at the Peachtree Nova 300 measurements (the 150 that you have was not reviewed here), its biggest flaw was with the DAC. In the standard 1 kHz test SINAD was dominated by distortions of 0.005% (mostly 2nd harmonic). The limit of THD detection by human is usually >0.1% when using the most sensitive signal with the most sensitive test method. With music, it is often >1%. The level of distortions from the Peachtree is far below audibility (>20x) and, IMHO, not a real concern. Signal-to-noise ratio of its speaker amplifier is in the green zone, and is therefore also more than adequate.

The Bluesound Node is similar -- technically poor THD which was still far below audibility. Amir also had issue with its useability. This combination of 2 flaws earned it the headless panther. As you have the unit, you can judge for yourself whether usability is a problem or not. THD isn't a real issue IMHO.

I highly doubt you'll hear any audible improvement with an upgrade, unless your power demand exceeds what the Peachtree amp can supply. The typical level of performance of DAC and amps these days is so far beyond our hearing capabilities, even "poorly" measured ones (relative to the state of the art performance) are often totally adequate.

In addition to my first post. What do you think about the Audioquest Cinnamon Digital Coax connecting my Node to my Peactree Nova? Would there be a worthwhile difference using a better Digital Coax? If so, what would you recommend? Then I’m using Blue Jeans speaker cables. What are your thoughts on those? Would there be a worthwhile difference upgrading them? If so, what would you recommend? Lastly, I’m using Vintage Klipsch Kg2 speakers. ( with the passive radiators on the backsides). Kind of like mini Forte’s. Do you think upgrading my speakers would make a difference? If so, what would you recommend? Keep in mind I’m living in an apartment. Thanks again for your feedback and helping me to understand all of this. I really appreciate it.

 

[NiagaraPete]

I concure, sadly though you paid dearly and could have done better with less money. Sorry to put salt on the wound.

 

[theREALdotnet]

Review sites (including this one) seem compelled to come up with a ranking system. With devices like DACs they are necessarily grading on a curve, there have to be winners and losers, especially with a simplistic rating like SINAD. You need to ask yourself what it all really means, and in the case of DACs it usually means diddly squat. Like @NTK said, don’t worry about the scoring as long as the defects are inaudible. You already spent the money, now enjoy the music.

 

[RHO]

So, are you saying that you don’t hear a difference between using the DAC in the Node vs the external Topping DAC + the Node? But the DAC in the Node is garbage? I’m confused.

Just because you can measure a vast difference in performance doesn't mean you can hear a vast difference in performance. Measuring equipement is so much more sensitive than any human ear/brain.
So, the numbers can vastly differ without any real consequence.

It all depends on the application and where the differences are. But in your case it most likely will not make much of an audible difference if you swap out components in the chain.
If you would have many marginally performing devices in a chain (like, connected in series) every next component degrades the signal coming from the previous one. In such situations you could benefit from devices that measure well below human hearing threshold. Like having a digital source, sending it trough a DAC to the analog input of a DSP to a DAC again to a pre-amp to a power-amp. If all those would have mediocre to bad noise numbers at the end of the chain the noise could be audible. While at the same time each individual component would have inaudible noise.

 

[airgas1998]

So, are you saying that you don’t hear a difference between using the DAC in the Node vs the external Topping DAC + the Node? But the DAC in the Node is garbage? I’m confused.

i was being sarcastic of the "mediocre"dac in the node....

 

[JayGilb]

In addition to my first post. What do you think about the Audioquest Cinnamon Digital Coax connecting my Node to my Peactree Nova? Would there be a worthwhile difference using a better Digital Coax? If so, what would you recommend? Then I’m using Blue Jeans speaker cables. What are your thoughts on those? Would there be a worthwhile difference upgrading them? If so, what would you recommend? Lastly, I’m using Vintage Klipsch Kg2 speakers. ( with the passive radiators on the backsides). Kind of like mini Forte’s. Do you think upgrading my speakers would make a difference? If so, what would you recommend? Keep in mind I’m living in an apartment. Thanks again for your feedback and helping me to understand all of this. I really appreciate it.

You would not hear any audible improvement using an Audioquest Cinnamon Digital Coax over a standard 75ohm coax cable. Your Blue Jeans speaker cables are fine and do not have to be changed out unless you are using too small of a gauge.

Speaker upgrades do make an audible difference, but if you like their sound then there's no need to invest in new speakers.
I'm not one to give advice on speakers, maybe someone else can give you a recommendation on a better set.

 

[NTK]

So, are you saying that you don’t hear a difference between using the DAC in the Node vs the external Topping DAC + the Node? But the DAC in the Node is garbage? I’m confused.

As @airgas1998 has said, he was just being sarcastic when he said the TI DAC chip in the Node was "garbage". He was just saying that the TI chips' performance spec wasn't competitive relative to the latest DAC chips from ESS or AKM.

It is telling that TI (Burr-Brown), which was a pioneer in the early development of audio DAC chips, no longer plays in the "high end audio" DAC space. I think TI has decided that any "advancement" in audio DAC THD+N performance is pretty much meaningless. High end audio is a market where fashion has superseded real technical requirements, and is not a market where TI wants to spend its resources. Has TI stopped developing DAC's? Definitely not. But if you are a tech company that serves many markets (of which audio is a small one), where do you want to invest your (limited) engineering resources? Multi-GHz ADC/DAC that can actually enable new applications, or to add another few meaningless dB's to your audio DAC spec?

For example, TI has stopped producing R-2R DAC dedicated to audio, but is still actively developing R-2R DAC for non-audio instrumentation applications (see DAC11001B, which was just recently released). This DAC chip has no problem with audio applications, and is used by Schiit in its Yggdrasil More-is-Less, but TI seems to have no interest in marketing it as such.

 

[btlancaster24]

Review sites (including this one) seem compelled to come up with a ranking system. With devices like DACs they are necessarily grading on a curve, there have to be winners and losers, especially with a simplistic rating like SINAD. You need to ask yourself what it all really means, and in the case of DACs it usually means diddly squat. Like @NTK said, don’t worry about the scoring as long as the defects are inaudible. You already spent the money, now enjoy the music.

So, had I known about these forums prior to buying what I have. How could I have better spent my money? I’m still open to selling what I have and considering other options.

Thanks again! I appreciate it.

 

[Katji]

You're fine with that - the Node and the Peachtree amp, but you didn't mention the speakers.

 

[HammerSandwich]

Everybody has ignored the obvious electronics upgrade: DSP for bass/room correction. You should be able to flip your gear for a Minidsp SHD & NC502 at very little cost. Will you hear a difference from better noise/distortion? Maybe a small difference. Will you hear a difference from Dirac? Oh, hell yes.

And the KG2s are almost certainly the weak link in your chain.

 

[Loathecliff]

You're fine with that - the Node and the Peachtree amp, but you didn't mention the speakers.

Psst. Yes he did, a few posts down, so somewhat buried
Klipsch Kg2. ... No, I've never seen a pair either. A 'bookshelf' with a ten inch speaker?! Mmm

 

[KellenVancouver]

As a Node 2i user there is one thing to also mention: use of BlueOS. As a physical unit Node 2I is fine, and when the unit is setup and working correctly all is well, even enjoyable. But BlueOS is cumbersome at best, and the incessant "upgrading" of BlueOS makes it rather a nightmare, at least for this user. I finally learned my lesson (talk about a slow learner) and now consistently refuse their upgrades. BlueOS is my only real gripe with the 2i.

 

[JayGilb]

So, had I known about these forums prior to buying what I have. How could I have better spent my money? I’m still open to selling what I have and considering other options.

Thanks again! I appreciate it.

In my opinion, you did just fine with your purchase decisions. If you like the sound of your system, then you did a good job selecting your components.
@NTK summarized it nicely.

Welcome to ASR !

 

[btlancaster24]

Everybody has ignored the obvious electronics upgrade: DSP for bass/room correction. You should be able to flip your gear for a Minidsp SHD & NC502 at very little cost. Will you hear a difference from better noise/distortion? Maybe a small difference. Will you hear a difference from Dirac? Oh, hell yes.

And the KG2s are almost certainly the weak link in your chain.

Where’s the best deal for Minidsp SHD, NC502 and Dirac? Idk all the abbreviations. Thanks again. Also, what do you think about the Schiit Loki Mini +.

 

[btlancaster24]

As a Node 2i user there is one thing to also mention: use of BlueOS. As a physical unit Node 2I is fine, and when the unit is setup and working correctly all is well, even enjoyable. But BlueOS is cumbersome at best, and the incessant "upgrading" of BlueOS makes it rather a nightmare, at least for this user. I finally learned my lesson (talk about a slow learner) and now consistently refuse their upgrades. BlueOS is my only real gripe with the 2i.

What do you think about the other more expensive streamer options vs the Node?