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Carver Crimson 275 Review (Tube Amp)

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Cougar

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Sorry to further derail this thread (but I don't think after this many pages it matters :)) but regarding outlet wiring - I have had one of these for quite some time and it is handy to use in any situation where you are unsure of previous wiring, even new homes. Last year I bought a home built in 1978 and walked through it and plugged this into every outlet - I was happy to see that only one outlet in the garage had an open ground. During our house hunt, we had looked at a home built in 1958 and this test showed more than half of the outlets with one issue or another.
View attachment 187577
Yes, these are a must have when doing your receptacle upgrades or replacements. I redid all my outlets one by one and as they were originally wired. I later went and bought one of these devices and checked all the outlets were fine except for one. The hot and neutral were reversed. I swore it was correct but this devices let me know it was wrong, it was an outlet that was really never used. I redid that outlet and checked again and everything was ok. This house was made in the early 50's
 
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Blumlein 88

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Sorry to further derail this thread (but I don't think after this many pages it matters :)) but regarding outlet wiring - I have had one of these for quite some time and it is handy to use in any situation where you are unsure of previous wiring, even new homes. Last year I bought a home built in 1978 and walked through it and plugged this into every outlet - I was happy to see that only one outlet in the garage had an open ground. During our house hunt, we had looked at a home built in 1958 and this test showed more than half of the outlets with one issue or another.
View attachment 187577
Speaking of inspections......most of the errors I've found in electrical wiring would have been uncovered by this little device. Yet to my knowledge no inspectors as a final check go and test each outlet with one of these. Further were an electrician I'd always use this as a final double check and I've never seen an electrician do that on a regular basis.

Then there is the time the company Christmas tree outlet was somehow connected to 440 volts..............surprisingly the bulbs meant for 120 volts didn't blow immediately.
 

Travis

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You may wish to read reason number 7 covering "Electrical Work Without Permits". My use of the term DIY was referring to a lay person.
Any errors by the person doing this work would be discovered during the inspection. Without an inspection, and a fire results, and was proven to be caused by negligence of the electrician, DIY or not, thats where the lawyers get in.

No I don't wish to review "Reason No. 7" from an insurance salesman from Pennsylvania. It's how misinformation is spread. I have only been doing insurance law for 36 years, so I'm still "practicing" at this, but I'm pretty sure I have this down, and the law does vary from state to state, but this is pretty uniform across the country. You may have an informed basis for this, maybe you have a CPCU certification from the Insurance Institue, practice in this area like I do, or have real-life experience with this. However, based on what you have said up to this point I can only speculate that you are just shooting from the hip in an area of law that people might get easily misled.

I get my information from Federal and Statue Insurance statutes, case law, and the specific policy language at play. Every state I practice in would prohibit a homeowner's insurance company from denying a claim for a fire that was due to the negligent wiring of the insured, whether it violated code or not. Nor can it deny a claim based on the fact that a contractor hired by the insured violated the code.


A homeowner's insurer who pays a claim for fire or other loss can sue a contractor or product manufacturer whose work/product can be proven to have caused or contributed to the fire. I think this is what you really are trying to say, and it is fact actually the case. If your Mr. Coffee Coffeemaker started the fire and can be proven in court, then after your insurance company pays your claim (to you and your mortgage lender) they can turn around and sue Mr. Coffee (Sunbeam Corp.) for the amounts they paid out to you. They can't tell you to wait until they collect from Sunbeam, or Joe Blow Handyman, they have to pay you (usually under strict time guidelines), and then sue the manufacturer or contractor. . This is called subrogation. Your homeowners' policy will specifically state if they pay a claim that was caused by someone else's faulty work or product, they are "subrogated" to your rights to sue that contractor or manufacturer. You cannot double dip, you can't collect from your insurance company, and Mr. Coffee.

An insurance company cannot sue its own insured (the homeowner) to recover what it paid. It would defeat the purpose of insurance. Again, insurance companies know people will do stupid things. Like smoke in bed, use kerosene lamps that get knocked over, or burn the Christmas tree in the fireplace. It's why when you go down to Home Depot and buy a new ladder it's covered in warning labels. Because people are going to step/stand on the top step of a ladder, Warner puts a label on there.

You can try to walk this back all you want, but it's not going to help you much. Such as, "what I was really getting at was" something like "pull a permit and get an inspection." You statement about "DIY electricians" run the risk of their homeowners not paying a claim caused by their work is still wrong. I know that folks here like to debate the academic or theoretical aspect of things without regard to how life or things work in the real world, and it's easy to get sucked into that in terms of things that have legal implications, but the real world is where you need to be on this stuff. Are you going to pull a permit to replace a receptacle with a GFCI? Are you going to pull a permit to add a ceiling fan? Are you going to pull a permit to change a circuit breaker? Are you going to get inspections for any of those things?

What about people who buy a 100 plus-year-old Victorian that has knob and tube wiring? (Google it) It doesn't remotely meet the current code, but yet as dangerous as that is (1000x more risk of electrocution than this amp we are talking about), I would bet that it's grandfathered in almost every state. This means, when you purchase the home, even borrow money to buy it, you are not required to retrofit (rewire the house) to meet code. When you contact your agent to get a homeowners policy effective the date you close, they may ask you on the application what kind of wiring (most will not), if you accurately fill out the application and they issue you a policy (bind coverage) they cannot deny a fire claim that occurs the day after you bought it due to the wiring.

I don't really understand the "pull a permit - get an inspection" walk back. Something significant enough to require a permit is going to require a licensed electrician to sign off on the work to pass inspection. They will let a homeowner typically do all of the work themselves except, electrical, HVAC and plumbing. As someone else previously mentioned, doing a small home project that doesn't require an inspection, like putting in a ceiling fan, the building department won't inspect, and the typical real estate home buyer inspector isn't going to help you much.

However, one thing's for certain, if after you install your new GFCI receptacle to make your amp safer, or replace all of your old breakers with AFCI to seriously reduce your risk of fire, or you put Lutron dimmers all around your house, or you or you ran a wire to your outdoor patio and put in a cool new ceiling fan out there (plus an outdoor TV), and as soon as you hit the power your wonderful project bursts into flames which your local fire department puts out without too much damage. Your homeowner's insurer is going to cover you whether you wired it to code, violated code or the handyman you were sure knew what they were doing did it wrong, or the ceiling fan company wired their fan wrong, or the breakers were defective or a million other things. Like a good neighbor may decide they don't want to write you the next year, or they double your rates because their actuaries have identified you as a red flag (dumb ass), but they will pay your claim. How much to rebuild, your estimate vs. their estimate, damage caused by earthquake or hurricane that results in a fire, flooding, are all their own separate nightmares and certainly deserving of the stress and frustration of any insurance claim.

Moral of the story. 1) Don't have a fire in your house. 2) Don't be a dumb ass. 3) Violation of 1 and/or 2 is why banks require us to have insurance, to protect their collateral, State Insurance Commissions require homeowners carriers to pay claims if 1 and or 2 occur, so accept a reasonable amount of risk, be careful, if it involves natural gas or electricity either know what you are doing, or hire/get help from someone who does, and if all else fails, have a really, really good insurance agent and company in the wings how will pay your claim and get you back to start all over again. Don't lose too much sleep over whether the last electrical project you did was to code or not. If you seriously want to prevent a house fire in this age of dozens of electrical products that are constantly on in our homes, find out if you have working UL or similar AFCI breakers? If not, call your licensed electrician to come out and tell you what it would run. Try to resist the urge to call your brother-in-law, Larry, who installs TV cable, to do it for a 12 pack.
 

Travis

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I am very aware of that, thank you. I had my license for a bit and have done wiring in my own homes over the years (as recently as a couple of years ago) that had to pass inspection. I am aware of the function of the safety ground and why an improperly grounded component can cause shock and even kill without it (even with, in some cases). I have attended the funerals when equipment failure led to death. I do not take this issue lightly. Loose connections in the electrical service box are a significant problem, but there are many other failure mechanisms, internal and external, that can cause a design like this to be problematic. I have seen many, including something as simple as an open molded plug. The requirements to earn the double-insulated mark indicate at least some resistance to shock, but this amp has no such marking, and presumably is not certified as such.

I give up, however, and leave further debate to Darwin.
Don,

Did you ever encounter a problem with getting an 8' rod to ground, have to go to 10' or more? Did you typically use the double rod method, two rods at least 6' apart I think it is? In Texas, because of drought, it can sometimes be difficult to get a good ground depending on the area, soil, etc. Just curious if you ever ran into this.
 

Travis

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Inspection isn't infallible. I could cite several examples. Especially with something like wiring. It isn't worthless, but you cannot have half way electricians and expect inspection to catch all the problems.
Doesn't matter if they are quarter, half, or full electricians, anyone can have a bad day, and you are absolutely correct you don't want to be relying on the building inspector to catch everything. There is too much variation on what certifications (if any) building departments require of their electrical inspectors, assuming they even have specialized inspectors.

On new construction, which is where you are going to typically have a permit/inspection process suggested by someone else, there is typically only one guy who is licensed, supervising several guys doing several houses at a time. The home builders don't select them for being fastidious, artistic, etc. Cheep and no callbacks is the name of the game.
 

DonH56

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Don,

Did you ever encounter a problem with getting an 8' rod to ground, have to go to 10' or more? Did you typically use the double rod method, two rods at least 6' apart I think it is? In Texas, because of drought, it can sometimes be difficult to get a good ground depending on the area, soil, etc. Just curious if you ever ran into this.
Yes, as you say it depends upon the water table and type of soil. There are also rules and regs (laws) about having ground rods different from the service ground so you have to be careful to not run afoul of local codes. One rod I sank deep and ran heavy (like 000) cable to the service, then had to pull it up because a second rod was "against code". I made my argument, and the inspector agreed with my technical points, but the law is the law...

In MO, where I was born and went to college (with a lot of moves between), a 6' rod was usually just fine and dandy. Ditto MS, but in KS and even here in CO I would go deeper. In KS, for my ham tower, I had to use a 12' (I think, been a while) rod even though the area seemed moist enough. The deepest I ever drove, for a commercial building, was a set of 20' rods. I don't think they needed to be that deep, but I was The Apprentice at the time, and did what I was told.

Multiple rods make sense on the surface but in practice I've never really cared for them. Finding a good place for a pair (or more) and then wiring them was always a pain. There is also the issue that, if one is not good enough, then there is no guarantee a second will be any better. And of course you can have potential difference between (among) the rods so may lose some or all of the benefit. I usually preferred to find a good spot for one good rod, sink it, plumb it, and be done with it. It was a pain at times when I had to sink and test several sites around a house to find a good one. Where I live now, the soil is very rocky (in the Rockies, imagine that ;) ), so I am glad I haven't felt the need to experiment.

We have well and septic so I had at one point thought about running a ground wire to the well pipe. It's about 350' down at our place so seemed like an ideal tie point. We have a lot of lightning in the area, and the driller told me about a Ham friend of his who did exactly that, only to have lightning strike his antenna tower, run down the well pipe, and take out the well pump some 1200' down. Oops.
 
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Travis

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Sorry to further derail this thread (but I don't think after this many pages it matters :)) but regarding outlet wiring - I have had one of these for quite some time and it is handy to use in any situation where you are unsure of previous wiring, even new homes. Last year I bought a home built in 1978 and walked through it and plugged this into every outlet - I was happy to see that only one outlet in the garage had an open ground. During our house hunt, we had looked at a home built in 1958 and this test showed more than half of the outlets with one issue or another.
View attachment 187577
Those are great, but again, you have to be careful and be knowledgeable about what you have. The RT210 will test accurately GFCI receptacles, for a few bucks more, and they make another one if you have AFCI breakers. A certified residential home inspector gave me one about 30 years ago as a Gimmick, think it had his name and number on it (cheaper, more basic, but same idea). Everyone should have one in my opinion.
 

Blumlein 88

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Those are great, but again, you have to be careful and be knowledgeable about what you have. The RT210 will test accurately GFCI receptacles, for a few bucks more, and they make another one if you have AFCI breakers. A certified residential home inspector gave me one about 30 years ago as a Gimmick, think it had his name and number on it (cheaper, more basic, but same idea). Everyone should have one in my opinion.
Yeah, the RT210 is like the one I have. Hadn't looked for one to test AFCI. No one has those around where I live.

What might be nice is one you plug in to monitor a circuit. Just leave it listening for the Arc Fault signature and show an alarm if one has occurred. Not as good as having AFCI breakers, but might alert you to a developing problem before one occurred bad enough to start a fire for places that don't have AFCI.

Well there is a monitoring type device for Arc Faults, but it isn't wallet friendly.

 
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Travis

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Hadn't looked for one to test AFCI. No one has those around where I live.
The data and studies are all pretty consistent and state that today, about half of the house fires in the US could have been prevented if they had AFCI breakers. GFCI breakers or receptacles won't cover the fire danger either. So GFCI near water and garage/outside, the rest AFCI breakers if you want to cover it all.

I think I saw some mention of someone in EU saying that they use whole-house ground fault interrupters there, etc. The NEC has always slanted towards value of human life primary, and whatever fire risk reduction secondary. In the EU it's the opposite, their ground fault interrupters and thresholds are primarily to reduce risk of fire, and reducing electrocution risk was a secondary benefit. I always found that quite fascinating and how public policy, building practices, density, get rolled up into these codes. I suspect, on average, a fire in the typical EU city or suburb has the potential to harm/kill significantly more people than in the US, while in the US, before GFCI's were mandatory, we had a significant number of preventable electrocutions in the home.
 

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Mnyb

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The ground fault interrupt treshold in mA in private homes is such that it also prevents electrocution . At least here in Sweden ( we are supposed to follow eu standards ) .
And yes it’s for the whole house . It was of great help when I discovered that the electrical floor heating was going bad in one of our showers .
 

Blumlein 88

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The data and studies are all pretty consistent and state that today, about half of the house fires in the US could have been prevented if they had AFCI breakers. GFCI breakers or receptacles won't cover the fire danger either. So GFCI near water and garage/outside, the rest AFCI breakers if you want to cover it all.

I think I saw some mention of someone in EU saying that they use whole-house ground fault interrupters there, etc. The NEC has always slanted towards value of human life primary, and whatever fire risk reduction secondary. In the EU it's the opposite, their ground fault interrupters and thresholds are primarily to reduce risk of fire, and reducing electrocution risk was a secondary benefit. I always found that quite fascinating and how public policy, building practices, density, get rolled up into these codes. I suspect, on average, a fire in the typical EU city or suburb has the potential to harm/kill significantly more people than in the US, while in the US, before GFCI's were mandatory, we had a significant number of preventable electrocutions in the home.
Well I don't get to tell others what to put in their houses. And since in general AFCI's are not seen in my area, an AFCI tester is pretty much useless. So I'd never thought much of it.

Now that isn't to say I don't understand the benefits of it, and could put AFCI's in my own house. I have GFCI's. My previous house only had glass fuses no breakers.
 
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amirm

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I get my information from Federal and Statue Insurance statutes, case law, and the specific policy language at play. Every state I practice in would prohibit a homeowner's insurance company from denying a claim for a fire that was due to the negligent wiring of the insured, whether it violated code or not. Nor can it deny a claim based on the fact that a contractor hired by the insured violated the code.
The notion that "insurance company will deny" has become so widespread that everyone takes it for fact. Years ago I thought about it and it made no sense for the many reasons you mention. To be sure, I took out my insurance policy and read every word in it. There was absolutely nothing in there for them to deny the claim so from then on, I have been correcting folks on this. From now on though, I will link to your well-written and authoritative post. :)
 

DonH56

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1. AFCIs are required for new construction in my area. About ten years ago, only for bedrooms and kitchen areas, but the electrician said they were planning to require them everywhere. At that time they were new and a major PITA. Every time we started the treadmill or ran a vacuum it tripped and left my son in the dark (basement bedroom). After the electrician replaced it twice (so went through three total) I swapped it for a GFCI and called it quits.

2. I wonder about the insurance stuff. When I added a dishwasher and dryer outlet (240 V to replace the gas dryer that came with the place), the insurance agent said if a licensed electrician did it that was fine, but if I did it (I was not licensed in that state) I would have to have it inspected. It was a long time ago, but at that time there was a line in the policy that said (with a lot more words) that a DIY wiring failure leading to a fire was not covered. That said, I have no idea if something similar is in our current policy, but back when we finished the basement I looked for it and did not see it. I did not look hard as we had to have it inspected anyway.

Thanks for the info, @Travis and @amirm .
 
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Blumlein 88

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1. AFCIs are required for new construction in my area. About ten years ago, only for bedrooms and kitchen areas, but the electrician said they were planning to require them everywhere. At that time they were new and a major PITA. Every time we started the treadmill or ran a vacuum it tripped and left my son in the dark (basement bedroom). After the electrician replaced it twice (so went through three total) I swapped it for a GFCI and called it quits.

2. I wonder about the insurance stuff. When I added a dishwasher and dryer outlet (240 V to replace the gas dryer that came with the place), the insurance agent told if a licensed electrician did it that was fine, but if I did it (I was not licensed in that state) I would have to have it inspected. It was a long time ago, but at that time there was a line in the policy that said (with a lot more words) that a DIY wiring failure leading to a fire was not covered. That said, I have no idea if something similar is in our current policy, but back when we finished the basement I looked for it and did not see it. I did not look hard as we had to have it inspected anyway.

Thanks for the info, @Travis and @amirm .
I've heard that lots about AFCI's tripping too easily. Which is why a better or at least alternate solution might be AFCI monitoring. If you know the Arc Fault was starting a treadmill fine, but if you start seeing it for other reasons you could investigate why.

Of course GFCI's early on failed too often. At one time I don't think I had any last past 3 years or maybe 2 years. The current ones have that straightened out it seems. Maybe AFCI's are better now too, I don't know as they aren't required here and no one has them.
 

JP

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Then there things that just don’t play well with GFCIs, like the VFD on my little lathe.
 

Travis

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1. AFCIs are required for new construction in my area. About ten years ago, only for bedrooms and kitchen areas, but the electrician said they were planning to require them everywhere. At that time they were new and a major PITA. Every time we started the treadmill or ran a vacuum it tripped and left my son in the dark (basement bedroom). After the electrician replaced it twice (so went through three total) I swapped it for a GFCI and called it quits.
Like everything else in the NEC, it depends on when, and if, your state adopted the revisions to the NEC. I believe the first big major change on AFCI in the NEC was '99, then in 2017, and again in 2020. Again, GFCI protect you from electrocution, NFCI protect you from fire, they don't do both. The changes and when are based solely on my individual personal experiences in purchasing homes in Texas and vacation homes in Colorado. Every state is different. Something I ran across recently in connection with a case (I have attached the myth busters pdf from the links below)

"Arc Fault Circuit Interrupters (AFCIs) are an important electrical fire prevention and safety requirement of the National Electrical Code (NEC®), which first required them beginning in 1999. AFCIs help protect individuals and families from injuries and/or death by detecting dangerous arcing in electrical wires and shutting down an electrical system before a fire can start.

In the 2020 edition of the NEC®, Section 210.12 requires that for dwelling units, all 120-volt, single-phase, 15- and 20-ampere branch circuits supplying outlets or devices installed in dwelling unit kitchens, family rooms, dining rooms, living rooms, parlors, libraries, dens, bedrooms, sunrooms, recreation rooms, closets, hallways, laundry areas, or similar rooms or areas shall be protected by AFCIs.

Nationwide, residential and electrical code adoption committees have continued to update individual state code requirements to the NEC®.

This section of AFCISafety.org provides additional factual materials for code committees, state leaders and others to consider as individual code standards are reviewed and updated to meet the 2020 NEC® AFCI requirements.

2. I wonder about the insurance stuff. When I added a dishwasher and dryer outlet (240 V to replace the gas dryer that came with the place), the insurance agent told if a licensed electrician did it that was fine, but if I did it (I was not licensed in that state) I would have to have it inspected. It was a long time ago, but at that time there was a line in the policy that said (with a lot more words) that a DIY wiring failure leading to a fire was not covered. That said, I have no idea if something similar is in our current policy, but back when we finished the basement I looked for it and did not see it. I did not look hard as we had to have it inspected anyway.

It goes state by state, and 30 or 40 years ago there were states that were very insurance friendly and would try to deny a claim based on that. That has, over time, eroded away because the mortgage lending industry started lobbying for changes when they were left holding the bag, along with state's recognizing certain patterns, etc.

You are in Colorado, which passed a very tough Homeronwers Reform Act several years ago. I don't know if you noticed the language in your policy changed one year (I certainly did). One of the requirements of the Act to protect homeowners was to require that policies be written at a 10th grade reading level, or below. I would have loved to have been at the legislative hearings on that, seeing a state legislator asking an insurance executive to read a confusing section from his/her policy and explain it. It's a no - win for the executive, they can either say, what I don't know for sure, I would have to ask my legal department, or their answer is picture perfect, simple and easy, and the then the legislator say, well why don't you just say that?
 

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amirm

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Sorry to further derail this thread (but I don't think after this many pages it matters :)) but regarding outlet wiring - I have had one of these for quite some time and it is handy to use in any situation where you are unsure of previous wiring, even new homes. Last year I bought a home built in 1978 and walked through it and plugged this into every outlet - I was happy to see that only one outlet in the garage had an open ground. During our house hunt, we had looked at a home built in 1958 and this test showed more than half of the outlets with one issue or another.
View attachment 187577
I got a free version of these with a voltmeter (as part of another item I bought) which is even more useful:

71IS-u9yxYL._AC_SL1500_.jpg


Had an outdoor GFCI outlet which would not power my pressure washer. Plugged the one in the right and saw the voltage changing all over. I realized the contacts were corroded. Sprayed some good lubricant in there and after some plugging and unplugging, got it back to life.
 
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