Are crossovers in speakers overrated?

[Westsounds]

Other than the obvious speaker protection function on tweeters or midrange drivers of course.

Some guys swear they are the most important part of any speaker, yet I've had a few speaker designs which have had no or minimal crossovers and they have been some of the best speakers I've owned.

But then there are others who can't get over it as being gospel that good crossover design is not just essential it is everything.

With the infinite amount of designs out there and yet everyone has their take on crossovers it's no surprise people are confused.

And then there's the active guys or DSP affiliates who say that is everything.

I've never had a headphone that's had a crossover either and most have all been able to be eq'd to sound good.

Some of the BS ( Bad Science ) behind crossovers frustrates me.

What do you think?

 

[Longshan]

Umm. . . Can you define "crossover?" The way you are using that word makes it seem like you define it differently than I'm used to.

 

[dfuller]

No, it's pretty essential. Great drivers, great cabinet, crap crossover = bad sounding speaker.

Now, the components don't matter that much - that's the snake oil.

 

[Westsounds]

Umm. . . Can you define "crossover?" The way you are using that word makes it seem like you define it differently than I'm used to.

This sort of thing

 

[bluefuzz]

What do you think?

I think you're trolling ... or drunk.

Of course any loudspeaker with two or more drivers will need a crossover. In the bad old days it may have been little more than 'a coil and a cap' but there was always a crossover. Nowadays it may be included in the active electronics (digital or or analogue) within the speaker box. But there is still a crossover ...

So yes, it's an absolutely essential part of any loudspeaker with more than one driver.

 

[Westsounds]

Minimal or some have even less like full-range units

 

[Prana Ferox]

It's technically a response shaping circuit and not a crossover for a full-range driver, but regardless, it would be extremely difficult to get a flat FR without it.

That's not to say your 'best' speakers don't sound pleasing to you, but certainly with no crossover or at least a shaping circuit, I would expect them to measure poorly.

Driver selection is probably the most important part of speaker design, but crossover design is certainly up there. For both drivers and crossover, 'more parts' and 'higher cost' does not necessarily mean 'better'.

 

[Zek]

@Westsounds Try to find out something before asking such a question.

Audio crossover - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Longshan]

This sort of thing

Ok. Saying "minimal" crossover doesn't make much sense. And protection isn't really the point of the crossover.

 

[abdo123]

the crossover is what makes a driver a speaker.

with full range units the crossover is most of the time a mechanical one. or none existent because the unit is already (relatively) small.

 

[Longshan]

the crossover is what makes a driver a speaker.

with full range units the crossover is most of the time a mechanical one. or none existent because the unit is incredibly small.

*nonexistent

 

[Prana Ferox]

Ok. Saying "minimal" crossover doesn't make much sense. And protection isn't really the point of the crossover.

Your cheapest of the cheap two-ways will have a 'crossover' that's just a capacitor in line with the HF driver to prevent low-frequency over-excursion, running the LF driver full-range.

It used to be fashionable to include fuses, light bulbs or some other current-limiting device in crossovers, especially on the tweeter end, as a sacrificial element to prevent burning out the drivers. They're not really part of the crossover function though, and generally make the sound worse, albeit better than a speaker with roasted drivers.

 

[Longshan]

Your cheapest of the cheap two-ways will have a 'crossover' that's just a capacitor in line with the HF driver to prevent low-frequency over-excursion, running the LF driver full-range.

It used to be fashionable to include fuses, light bulbs or some other current-limiting device in crossovers, especially on the tweeter end, as a sacrificial element to prevent burning out the drivers. They're not really part of the crossover function though, and generally make the sound worse, albeit better than a speaker with roasted drivers.

I was being more binary. Does it have a crossover is a yes/no in that sense.

 

[DonR]

I once built a two way using only a capacitor to block the low-end energy from reaching the tweeter and relying on the mechanical response of the woofer. It had a little pronounced hump at the crossover frequency which I adjusted via a graphic equalizer (this was the early 90's) although I detected some cone breakup about an octave further up. Often, companies will use crossovers to adjust either the FR or the characteristic impedance to make the speaker a more friendly load. Definitely a useful tool but a far second place to the drivers in importance, IMO.

 

[mhardy6647]

Probably not the kind(s) of crossovers any of y'all are thinking about...


"dual-compliance" surrounds -- here on some rather highly regarded Fukuin (Pioneer) drivers; more famously found on the Altec "Biflex" drivers

the venerable and widely - but not universally - maligned whizzer (in this case on a pair of Electrovoice LS-12 "fullrange" drivers)

Altec 603B -- extended HF via an aluminum dustcap and a horn(?!).


The mechanical kind.

 

[Westsounds]

Not trolling, or drunk unfortunately it's a genuine question.

There are plenty of crossoverless designs out there. epos had a mass appeal and many followers. They were in fact the go to speaker for many naim owners because they just sounded fantastic with their equipment. These had pretty much no crossover. Their mid bass (s) ran full range with just a capacitor on the tweeter to stop it frying.

Wharfedale also had some similar designs with drivers wired direct.

And of course fostex run full range with no crossover.

But there are many others.

Many PA speakers run full range through their 12inch (or +) main drivers, and just protection against their tweeter / horn whatever. And this is live music, which is often recorded to reproduce on our 'hi-fi's' for live event reproduction at home.

 

[mhardy6647]

Pretty much no crossover, to me, logically equates to pretty much virginal.

Starting in the early 1970s, Winslow Burhoe's "Burhoe Modules", found in his EPI, Epicure (and later company) models, used a broadband woofer with very mild-mannered HF rolloff behavior and run full range, paired with a (rather good, actually) concave dome "airspring" tweeter with (in most cases) only a first-order XO (i.e., a crossover). They were (are) quite pleasant loudspeakers to listen to, and also very easy to drive, despite being acoustic suspension designs (in most cases).


This is the economy "V" (for "vinyl", as opposed to wood veneer) version of the famous EPI 100 of the '70s.

source: https://www.humanspeakers.com/e/epi100.htm

Matthew Polk, Sandy Gross, & colleagues started Polk Audio with a rather peculiar loudspeaker called the Model Nine, which touted a crossoverless design. It was, in fact, what I would call an "augmented fullrange" speaker, using four rather nice CTS 4" "extended range" drivers (same drivers originally used in the Bose 901s, and not coincidentally so*), "augmented" by a passive radiator alignment and the rather infamous CTS piezo tweeter. The tweeter is, in essence, a capacitor which acts as its own crossover at ca. 4 kHz -- although it sounds rather horribly spitty when allowed to do so.





The complete Model Nine brochure may be found at https://polksda.com/pdfs/ModelNineManual.pdf

 

[valerianf]

Let us take an example: a 3 way column speaker 10 years old.
I never been satisfied by the sound quality until I tweaked the crossover.
Reason number 1: the manufacturer will never implement a complex crossover in a cheap speaker.

Now there are other factors of bad sound quality about thisnexample:
The tweeter has some ferrofuid that dried, then it will be replaced.
The midrange does not have enough dB output, then it will be replaced with a high efficiency midrange.
The enclosure is not rigid enough, that point will be corrected.

In resume, in a low cost speaker, the first point of cost cutting is to simplify the crossover.
But improving its design is a complex task, even if modern tools as DATS and VirtuixCad are available nowadays.
The end result is always rewarding for those who have time to do it.

 

[Westsounds]

the rather infamous CTS piezo tweeter. The tweeter is, in essence, a capacitor which acts as its own crossover at ca. 4 kHz -- although it sounds rather horribly spitty when allowed to do so.

Never heard a decent sounding piezo tweeter. Yes those things can be wired directly as you say they act as their own crossover.

 

[Blumlein 88]

I refer to multi-way speakers without a cross over as one of those B.A.D. speakers. Broken As Designed.

If you don't know, then you don't know. If you know and asked the question it is a foolish question.

Even most panels speakers that are full-range cross over-less actually aren't.