Carver Crimson 275 Review (Tube Amp)

[vkhong]

I suppose I need to go the refund route. If Malitz will not answer my questions, how do I trust that I will get a refund after I ship this thing to him?

One would get an RMA number from the dealer or BC Corp *before* shipping a unit back for return with or without a restocking fee.

 

[EchoChamber]

In the interview, Malitz says if you have a problem or question you talk to him. That would be great, but he needs to respond to make it true. responded.

OMG, nothing that came out of his mouth makes any sense!!??… I wasn’t dreaming, they are selling these amps as room correction devices and, hear this, if you have a “defective tube”, it (the amp) will “repair it”. Not counting the fact that the amp actually produces “90w PC”… This is pretty bad and on camera. Total nonsense, it’s really embarrassing.

I just hope most audiophiles have commonsense and stay clear from these products, god knows what other bad decisions have been made...

 

[Holmz]

The whole concept of 'transient power' or 'short term power' I believe is not a valid concept and doesn't stand up to real world music program material. The problem is that how useful that transient power is depends totally on the type of program material. With some of today's hyper compressed music where there is near-maximum output all the time, transient power is meaningless and continuous power is what should be considered. Even in classical music, a sustained period with a large orchestral/choral tutti at fff leaves little room for transient power; again, the relevant power requirement is continuous power. Same thing with noisy motion pictures or pipe organ music for that matter.

Really, I tend to doubt that 'transient music' even exists which fits neatly into the type of specification put forth in the context of this amplifier and others going back to the bad-old-days of 'music power' or worse still, 'peak music power'. This is why 'continuous' power became the FTC mandated norm because it was an honest, no mumbo-jumbo way of telling the customer what they could expect for their money.

A lot of the HT and pipe organ music, has the SPL is in the subwoofer.
So I agree that with a subwoofer, talking about crest factor is meaningless.

But crest factor measurements exist for a large number of songs.

And, in fact, the only way to get more decent SPL out of an undersized ampl is with compressing the music.
(So it sounds better on mediocre gear.)

So I agree somewhat your premise @MakeMineVinyl .

If they labelled it as 75w RMS “musical” it would be somewhat honest, as that would correct with a crest factor of 7 being a factor 5x of a delta between peak and RMS power.

 

[L0rdGwyn]

...if you have a “defective tube”, it will ”repair it”.

That's a funny claim given all of the driver tubes are being underheated at 5.7VAC, lower if the wall AC is less than 120VAC, which could contribute to cathode poisoning, reducing the usable lifespan of the tubes.

 

[jbhiller]

It's customary to get an RMA number before returning a product. Request one from Frank Malice, excuse me, Malitz. If nothing else, his response or non-response will strengthen your legal case.

"Malic"--HA!!! So true.

 

[MakeMineVinyl]

In the interview, Malitz says if you have a problem or question you talk to him. That would be great, but he needs to respond to make it true. responded.

Holy crap! I sure wouldn't buy a used car from that man!

 

[paulbottlehead]

If it was only a matter of using shrink tubing on the exposed AC terminals why was it still certified by CE?

It may be that the double insulation label is restricted to the use of two prong AC connectors. The ungrounded 3 prong connector is obviously used to maintain the correct polarity at the plug end on this component.

I'm speaking of the 275. I do not see any CE marks on the 275. You do not need a three prong IEC connector to maintain polarity. The two prong IEC jack would do the same job.

The appropriate solution to the grounding issue was already given here in a different post.

 

[norcalscott]

If it was only a matter of using shrink tubing on the exposed AC terminals why was it still certified by CE?

It may be that the double insulation label is restricted to the use of two prong AC connectors. The ungrounded 3 prong connector is obviously used to maintain the correct polarity at the plug end on this component.

Where did you get that there was any CE certification for this amplifier?

 

[Larry B. Larabee]

I'm speaking of the 275. I do not see any CE marks on the 275. You do not need a three prong IEC connector to maintain polarity. The two prong IEC jack would do the same job.

The appropriate solution to the grounding issue was already given here in a different post.

I thought for sure Amir mentioned a CE label (marking) being on the production unit he received.
I'll look.
edit: I looked back through to page 10 and didn't see it. mea culpa, sorry guys, like the thread isn't complicated enough.

 

[MaxBuck]

This amplifier is, objectively, a piece of crap. I don't really care what Bob Carver's history is. Crap is crap. Much better amplification can be secured for a small fraction of the price.

That said, if you like the doggone thing, buy it; I'm not trying to talk anyone out of that. Just recognize that it isn't a very good amplifier, and it's a lot to pay for an ornament.

 

[amirm]

I thought for sure Amir mentioned a CE label (marking) being on the production unit he received.

No, I said that there is NO regulatory certifications on it.

 

[EchoChamber]

This amplifier is, objectively, a piece of crap. I don't really care what Bob Carver's history is. Crap is crap. Much better amplification can be secured for a small fraction of the price.

That said, if you like the doggone thing, buy it; I'm not trying to talk anyone out of that. Just recognize that it isn't a very good amplifier, and it's a lot to pay for an ornament.

I think the safety issue is still something that needs to be rectified urgently, ornament or not. It is a risk for anyone using it, and to future owners after the first one. They should just issue a recall and partner with dealers to fix it. The fix is fairly simple, they can create a kit for a technician to follow. That’s what a serious company that stands by their products would do. Own the problem and fix it. Yes, it will cost, but much less if someone was seriously injured and sued them for negligence.

 

[MaxBuck]

I think the safety issue is still something that needs to be rectified urgently, ornament or not. It is a risk for anyone using it, and to future owners after the first one. They should just issue a recall and partner with dealers to fix it. The fix is fairly simple, they can create a kit for a technician to follow. That’s what a serious company that stands by their products would do. Own it and fix it. Yes, it will cost, but much less if someone was seriously injured and sued them for negligence.

I really can't speak to the electrical hazards; other, competent people have spoken to that problem. But I agree that any such hazards need to be addressed stat. You'd think the Carver company's liability insurers would want to get involved ASAP.

 

[Larry B. Larabee]

There is a CE mark.

It was you talking about the MacIntosh mc275. I didn't notice we were off topic. pg.43
Oh, well

 

[audio2design]

I don't see how either. That doesn't mean that Carver hasn't come up with some rudimentary GFCI like protection none of us understand since he is still smarter than all of us put together.

..

You are very good at this sarcasm thing.

 

[Rottmannash]

My amps are on low stands I built myself between my speakers. View attachment 179947My 17W dual 300b SET amps weigh 46lbs. each.
View attachment 179948

Martin

Ah...symmetry!

 

[Travis]

As someone who designs electrical equipment the lack of proper grounding scares me. And a company that forgoes UL testing is just plain Mickey Mouse or a simply hobby-scale startup. Even then don’t start up if you don’t have the funds to properly certify equipment that could kill people. Carver is big enough that they should be selling UL listed products. You do not have to have things UL approved to sell them but it is the legitimate way to operate. This is irresponsible and unsafe and the liability they incur by not testing is dangerous to the viability of the company itself! I doubt there are shareholders but if there are they should be informed that their investment is at great risk.
And this is not even mentioning the fact that it is a piece of shit specifications wise.

I thought that at first as well. Someone (an EE) mentioned it in another forum stating that "all of your other gear is UL rated" so I did some research. None of the big-name high-end manufacturers get UL ratings (Mark Levinson, McIntosh, Conrad Johnson, Audio Research just to name a few of the 20 or 30 I checked). You can verify this on the UL site for yourself. So I wondered why. My electric pencil sharpener, made in USA, UL, my undercabinet lights, UL, my power strip, UL. Why? So I asked my EE friend who is Chief Acoustical Engineer at a major speaker company and he said "because you have to submit 6 samples of your product to UL, some or all of which will be subjected to destructive testing, they take it all the way to critical failure." On products that have to be rated, like in-ceiling and architectural speakers (in commercial space) because of building and electrical codes, they submit and get the UL rating because everyone in that market must do so also. Six Mac MC275 Anniv. editions is $36,000 retail in product, plus the testing/certification costs. Oh, and it takes at least a year.

However, Mac and many others have the familiar "CE" on the back of their amp, which means it was certified to sell in EU. It's a completely different process. There are many, many companies in competition with one another who will certify your product for a fee. Like vehicle/smog inspections in some states. It doesn't require destructive testing, can be done quickly. So many will get CE and quit. The fact an amp maker doesn't get a UL listing isn't of any significance one way or the other. Now if they submitted it and it failed, that's a big, big deal if it reached the market without changes, etc.

 

[Larry B. Larabee]

..

You are very good at this sarcasm thing.

That, I can do. Reading comprehension, not so much.

 

[Travis]

I have contacted Frank Malitz seeking an explanation on the lack of a proper chassis ground and an on whether the 15w Edcor OPTs in my unit were spec'd by Bob Carver himself. Let's see..

It is interesting that I cannot seem to find an active corporation listing on Washington Secretary of State or Illinois (where Malitz lives). The company could be registered anywhere.

I posted on this earlier. The Bob Carver Corporation was incorporated in Washington but was administratively terminated (I posted a screenshot of that in my prior post). It is not incorporated in Illinois or California. Malitz has one corporation in Illinois, unrelated. The most they say publicly is that he and Wyred 4 Sound bought the Bob Carver Corporation, and Bob remains a "designer."

Bob and his wife owned 100% of Sunfire (confirmed in his patent infringement litigation documents). They sold that company in 2011 for millions (lots). I guess he gets bored. He started hand-building amps and selling them on eBay occasionally. Then he got talked into coming out of retirement by a guy he worked with at Sunfire and ELAN and they formed Bob Carver, L.L.C in 2019. They made some big power tube amps but I guess that didn't go too far. Then Bob starts the Bob Carver Corporation in Washington and sells out to Malitz and they move all production to CA at Wyred 4 Sound. He has no ownership in that company , and it is legally defunct as far as I can tell, which means current owners would have individual/personal liability.

My speculation is that Mr. Carver being paid a royalty for each amp sold, or gets some sort of consulting compensation as he seems to come in and back the design through the dealer that popped in here briefly. But Mr. C only seems to talk about the design, information on the specifics on the current build, the safety issue, the quality control person, that seems to all be coming from Mr. Malitz.

I think it's pretty clear that Mr. Carver is keeping a controlled distance from BCC, and if push came to shove, would say, hey yes it's my design but I have no idea what they have done with it since I sold the company, you would need to check with them.

 

[Travis]

I really can't speak to the electrical hazards; other, competent people have spoken to that problem. But I agree that any such hazards need to be addressed stat. You'd think the Carver company's liability insurers would want to get involved ASAP.

The Corporation was administratively cancelled (that means they didn't file their annual report and/or pay their annual fee. What makes you think these two guys have insurance?