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I think distortion from speakers doesn't get enough discussion. I think its impact on produced sound is profound.
These speakers are exceptionally free from distortion above 100 Hz, which likely has a lot to do with why Amir's subjective rating was higher than we might otherwise expect.
These speakers are exceptionally free from distortion above 100 Hz, which likely has a lot to do with why Amir's subjective rating was higher than we might otherwise expect.
Their distortion profile above 100 Hz is good but you can also smaller 2-ways which cost a fraction with similar or even lower so its nothing really exceptional.
I think distortion from speakers doesn't get enough discussion. I think its impact on produced sound is profound.
These speakers are exceptionally free from distortion above 100 Hz, which likely has a lot to do with why Amir's subjective rating was higher than we might otherwise expect.
I had the same thought, and totally agree. I would say the same about headphone distortion.
Of course with this frequency response, cabinet, and price, I don't really care if they used a great custom driver resulting in low distortion. It is not something I would ever recommend or buy.
Surely a determined amateur could do so much better for so much less. Hey, wait a minute! The ASR Directiva! I have long wondered whether the Wilson line were not just arbitrary stuff designed to make mystique. There is no use for that stuff. The genelec, d&d, neumann, revel, and kef lines innovate in real ways.
Interesting about this departure from the preference scores. I wonder if there is some additional new measurements to add to the quiver to correlate with preference around cabinet rigidity/dampness and driver performance (not sure what though).
For comparison, I switched back and forth a dozen times with Revel M106 speaker ($2,000). The Revel had a smaller halo and sounded more focused than the TuneTot. It had none of the brilliance of the Tunetot but his was a dual edged sword in that the TuneTot constantly gave the impression of a more detailed, and "audiophile" high frequency notes that were very nicely delineated. TuneTot also had deeper and cleaner bass response than the M106. Overall, I preferred the TuneTot over Revel.
Intriguing.
I have heard big differences between speakers which I had always attributed to cabinet and driver colouration. This conviction had been somewhat dented by statements here that the FR and directivity makes the most difference since in the case of my experience I didn't have a FR graph to compare similarities.
This speaker looks to have an inert cabinet and quality drivers.
I look forward to the wider studies to see if they coincide with my amateur experience.
On people saying you could get the same performance in a cheap unit, I don't think you can. I think part of the good response is the super rigid box and high quality drivers. I can't prove this but it is a working hypothesis. There was certain clarity in high frequency notes that was really nice.
These kind of reviews are the most interesting to me and I think as more reviews are completed there may begin to be a pattern on what kinds of things are most important. Some things that might be starting to become evident in speakers that measure worse than some but Amir still liked...
-Wide or at least even directivity in the most audible range
-Low distortion in particular where the ear is the most sensitive
-If it is a bookshelf, some extra bass even if in the 80-100hz range can give the appearance of more bass than is actually there
-Can play loud without falling apart, even if distortion starts to rise some in the bass
What is interesting to me is the apparent measurement deficiencies but yet it sounds better to Amir than some very good measuring speakers.
This particular review answers the question, did it sound good to Amir. He indicated it sounded better to him than the M106 which is a very good speaker. Value isn't always part of the equation it seems which is fine to me People can make up their own mind on if something is worth it. But the question has been answered if this speaker sounds good to him with EQ and that is all we can ask. Price is very expensive for a small 2 way, but we know it doesn’t measure as well as some but Amir likes it better than sone good speakers in side by side testing.
I don’t know what this means but I find it interesting.
I'm pretty sure TuneTots will be bought by existing owners of bigger Wilsons. Sure a few might use them as an entry point to the brand, but I'd guess most will be 'modest' 2nd systems in their executive suites.
I wondered the same. Is it the unit measured in Stereophile “class I” version helped by Crown Engineers? ML has an ab version and class I (really class D) made in similar cases.
This is just the way to design the small hifi speaker.
The deviation may be looked bad, but it won't be sounded wrong.
It's a great design.
Size must be considered.
Very grateful for the measurement and listening test from somebody I respect.
Maybe it has been said already in the discussion - but this is my personal experience with WA.
I had Sasha’s for couple of years, and I can relate to everything that Amir has written about his listening impressions as this is really WA signature sound - focus on some parameters and sacrificing another aspects of measured performance. They really are very specific - need to be positioned very accurately, hard to combine with amp, but the sound you get from them is quite addictive, from such a small speaker. You can hear all the FR unevenness, bass accent, but honestly - who cares. This is a speaker, where you leave after 1-2 hours “full of music” and this is all that counts for me. Now I have big electrostats, that will probably measure even more ugly - but again - I go to my listening room and leave “full of music” and with clear head, after listening whole day to some corporate newspeak.
Life is really not just about ideal measurements.
I have my home theater based on Neumanns, I drive my MartinLogans with HYpEX 1200 and have spent probably max 1000 eur on cables (just because of sheer length of cabling needed for 2 times 7.4.4 setup) but multiples of that amount on acoustic treatments (based on measurements).
There is nothing wrong on spending lot of money on things that bring you joy. Is Mercedes S Class 20 times better than Ford? No, is not, but all that counts is how you feel after you arrive and get out of the car. ( this is more European thing - we drive e.g. 500-600 km to get somewhere).
I seem to remember back when I started in hifi in the early 1980s, quite a lot of small British speakers exhibited this sort of mid to upper bass hump, and with some of the cheaper LP playback systems then being a bit bass light, they fooled the ear nicely into thinking there was more bass.
It's something of a surprise to see a similar speaker today, especially for this much money. But if the trick still works, they should convince their users that "vinyls" sound better than digital - especially modern digital remasters with the bass restored.
Yes, it's an old trick everybody knew at that time, but not originating from the vinyl thing.
You can't apply this trick to all small speakers because cheaper speakers using cheaper parts and enclosure not being able to endure this kind of boost.
A real good dense speaker or closed enclosure designed small speakers with the hump can have a good bass illusion to sound much better than the flat ones.
Illusion seems a bad word, but sounds good, that's reality.
It doesn't measure particularly well, but Amir preferred it to the M106, which is a very nice sounding speaker, so I was first inclined to rate it "fine". However, the M106 costs less than $1500 (final negotiated price from most dealers), so for $10k this gets a "not terrible" from me.
Right, for that amount of money, just go get real big floorstanding speakers.
The TuneTot is like showing how to deal with the small speaker issues and to implement some compensations to it.
People can afford $100k speakers will buy a pair of this for their kids I think.
It's great but not for me.
Very grateful for the measurement and listening test from somebody I respect.
Maybe it has been said already in the discussion - but this is my personal experience with WA.
I had Sasha’s for couple of years, and I can relate to everything that Amir has written about his listening impressions as this is really WA signature sound - focus on some parameters and sacrificing another aspects of measured performance. They really are very specific - need to be positioned very accurately, hard to combine with amp, but the sound you get from them is quite addictive, from such a small speaker. You can hear all the FR unevenness, bass accent, but honestly - who cares. This is a speaker, where you leave after 1-2 hours “full of music” and this is all that counts for me. Now I have big electrostats, that will probably measure even more ugly - but again - I go to my listening room and leave “full of music” and with clear head, after listening whole day to some corporate newspeak.
Life is really not just about ideal measurements.
I have my home theater based on Neumanns, I drive my MartinLogans with HYpEX 1200 and have spent probably max 1000 eur on cables (just because of sheer length of cabling needed for 2 times 7.4.4 setup) but multiples of that amount on acoustic treatments (based on measurements).
There is nothing wrong on spending lot of money on things that bring you joy. Is Mercedes S Class 20 times better than Ford? No, is not, but all that counts is how you feel after you arrive and get out of the car. ( this is more European thing - we drive e.g. 500-600 km to get somewhere).
suprisingly Martin Logans Montis or Impression 11 aren't more expensive (~10 000 /pair) than this WA, so someone should send one in if willing, that would be interesting measurement and listening...
I just don't understand I suppose why anyone would use these speakers to begin with at that price point.....just silly IMO.
ps but does fit in with my general view of why any one would want Wilson speakers to begin with....price be damned, just like what I heard....but then doubt just what they'd heard otherwise.
I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure he mentioned somewhere that he uses the Mark Levinsons for all speaker listening tests and Purifi amp for measurements. I believe one of his ML's is on the fritz.
