McIntosh Transformer causing noise in speakers while disconnected.

[ClassG33]

EDIT: **Amp is plugged into wall outlet using stock cable, as per manual - I switched to the high current isolated bank of the Panamax MAX5300PM, still noise, then used Blizzard AQ Power Cable, still noise, went back to wall and stock cable**
See pictures: What am I scientifically dealing with, and what are my options for placement or protection? Just installed new MC255 and B&W HTM71S3 to finish my 7 series 5 channel. When I turn the amp on, any speakers close to it pick up a lot of noise even when speaker cables are disconnected. I'm assuming the speakers are picking up (noise, magnetic interference, idk what is exactly happening..) from the Transformer. Is that normal with McIntosh and high powered amps, and should I consider replacing it to fix the problem? It seems the interference is omnidirectional from the amp. As you can see in second pic, I do not have many options for placement to keep it away from the LCR speakers. When I had it side to side next to the Center speaker in Pic 1, the noise was too loud to ignore.

Then I moved the AVR/PRE onto that little table and pushed the Center far left all the way to the edge, and it helped, but still noisy. The right Tower even picks it up a bit. Are there materials which will protect the speakers from picking this up? Anything I can put between them? Center needs to be in center, and the amp cannot go on the bottom (cats). Even if it could, it still causes noise from underneath the speaker thru the MDF.
Amp is in Panamax MAX5300PM High Current Outlet with Audioquest Blizzard power cable, and Panamax has NRGZ3 power cable to wall if that makes a difference.

 

[BDWoody]

What an annoying problem.

You've got some cool gear, hopefully you can get some good suggestions.

 

[EERecordist]

What does the noise sound like? Is it a 60 Hz hum? Or is it a hiss? What is the noise from each individual speaker driver? There are several free "spectrum analyzer" apps for mobile phones you could measure it and post a picture here of the noise spectrum, along with a wiring diagram for your whole system.

If it is a 60/60Hz which is radiated, not conducted through cables and grounds, the tool is Mu-Metal or generic mu-metal.

 

[mhardy6647]

Turn the amp 90 degrees (get an engine hoist if needed ) and see what happens to the "noise".

 

[ClassG33]

What does the noise sound like? Is it a 60 Hz hum? Or is it a hiss? What is the noise from each individual speaker driver? There are several free "spectrum analyzer" apps for mobile phones you could measure it and post a picture here of the noise spectrum, along with a wiring diagram for your whole system.

If it is a 60/60Hz which is radiated, not conducted through cables and grounds, the tool is Mu-Metal or generic mu-metal.

Each driver seems to be emitting sounds respective to their range. Tweeters hiss, mids whisshhh, and the woofers are buzzing. Does not sound like a 60Hz ground loop.

 

[ClassG33]

Turn the amp 90 degrees (get an engine hoist if needed ) and see what happens to the "noise".

I'll give that a shot and report back. I am sure that will minimize it since the Transformer is on the left side, and the center speaker is to the left of the Amp, but if that makes a substantial difference, what can I do with that info from there? I still need the amp facing forward. Do you know if some cheap magnetic shielding would be effective?

 

[ClassG33]

What an annoying problem.

You've got some cool gear, hopefully you can get some good suggestions.

Truly heartbreaking ‍. Even on 3 channel before I run the surrounds, I've never gotten this type of depth and detail from any speakers. The first scene in Raiders, with meters only peaking at 2.5mW, sound incredibly immersive and detailed.
I don't hear it when I'm playing content, but whenever the sound stops I can hear it. I've sold hifi systems for 5 years and never ran into this, but also have always sold expensive cabinetry to separate things... just never had to deal with this issue before.

 

[GXAlan]

When I turn the amp on, any speakers close to it pick up a lot of noise even when speaker cables are disconnected.

1) What do you mean by this? Speaker and amp are connected but the Marantz->McIntosh is disconnected? Because your speakers with no cable to them cannot generate any sound, which then suggests that there is DC on your main and toroidal transformers somewhere are buzzing.

2) Does the noise change when you power on the Marantz? I have active speakers which are noisier when my HTP-1 is off, and then when powered on, it quiets down. One thing you can try is to connect a ground wire from the Marantz to the Panamax ground lug. The McIntosh is grounded, the Marantz typically is floating ground, but in rare cases, you can still run into a problem.

 

[DVDdoug]

I'm assuming the speakers are picking up (noise, magnetic interference, idk what is exactly happening..) from the Transformer.

Is it possible that it's mechanical vibration? If you hold the speaker in the air does it go-away?

I've always thought it impossible for a passive speaker to wirelessly pick-up enough electrical or electro-magnetic energy to make a (audible) sound. And, still think that's the case. That's why speaker wires don't have to be shielded.

...There were some magnetically shielded speakers because the magnet in the speaker could mess-up a nearby CRT display.

 

[ClassG33]

Thanks for the questions!

1) I mean soon as I turn on the Power Amp only, any speakers within a few feet will generate noise, even when speaker cables are disconnected. I powered off and disconnected literally everything except the power cable to the power amp, and when i turn it on, the speakers will still make noise if close enough (again, 100% disconnected). Even when things are connected, the noise is the exact same, my any louder or quieter. The amp itself is not making any sound, and neither is the Marantz. I can literally walk away with the speaker in my hands and the noise stops. When I walk closer to the amp, the speaker starts making noise and gets louder the closer it is to the amp.

2) Noise is not affected by the Marantz, and is still present even when Marantz is removed entirely, so grounding it would not do anything.

 

[ClassG33]

Is it possible that it's mechanical vibration? If you hold the speaker in the air does it go-away?

I've always thought it impossible for a passive speaker to wirelessly pick-up enough electrical or electro-magnetic energy to make a (audible) sound. And, still think that's the case. That's why speaker wires don't have to be shielded.

...There were some magnetically shielded speakers because the magnet in the speaker could mess-up a nearby CRT display.

Great thought. The noise persists even when I lift the speaker into the air. It is certainly an airborne interference which penetrates physical objects. It even gets picked up by the floorstanding speaker on the right.

Towers are on Plinths, and Center Speaker also has the included Rubber-Adhesive feet for isolation, and the McIntosh also has isolating feet of its own by design. I was hoping maybe someone knows what type of interference i am dealing with, and can recommend a way to protect the speaker

 

[EERecordist]

Each driver seems to be emitting sounds respective to their range. Tweeters hiss, mids whisshhh, and the woofers are buzzing. Does not sound like a 60Hz ground loop.

Is this with no speaker wires connected to the speakers, just terminals and air? Uploading a hand drawn wiring diagram of all your gear would help. Then readers can propose a troubleshooting approach.

Passive speakers can very rarely pick up noise, especially in any coils in the crossover. But it is unusual to have so much much broadband noise that would excite different frequency drivers. The last resort is to connect an inductive coil probe to an oscilloscope and a spectrum analyzer

 

[GXAlan]

I powered off and disconnected literally everything except the power cable to the power amp, and when i turn it on, the speakers will still make noise if close enough (again, 100% disconnected).

WOW.

Is it loud enough to be captured by a cell phone video?

If your passive speakers are completely unplugged *and* walking with them close to an amp generates audible movement of the transducers, it suddenly throws a lot of so called audiophile snake oil into “maybe there are some electrical environments where this stuff matters”.

@amirm, any ideas? This is the first I have hear of wireless magnetic fields being enough to drive an 89 dB efficient speaker….

 

[mhardy6647]

I'll give that a shot and report back. I am sure that will minimize it since the Transformer is on the left side, and the center speaker is to the left of the Amp, but if that makes a substantial difference, what can I do with that info from there? I still need the amp facing forward. Do you know if some cheap magnetic shielding would be effective?

If it's inductively coupled -- distance is the cheapest shielding

 

[ClassG33]

Nothing but Air, my friend. Correct, there are no speaker wires connected, no Analog cables, no digital cables, no interconnects.

The Amp has no interconnects or speaker cables going into it, and the speaker has no speaker cables going into it.

The amp itself is Silent.

Any speaker will pick up a noise if I bring it within a few feet of the amp, even when I am holding it and they are not touching the ground or table.

 

[ClassG33]

WOW.

Is it loud enough to be captured by a cell phone video?

If your passive speakers are completely unplugged *and* walking with them close to an amp generates audible movement of the transducers, it suddenly throws a lot of so called audiophile snake oil into “maybe there are some electrical environments where this stuff matters”.

@amirm, any ideas? This is the first I have hear of wireless magnetic fields being enough to drive an 89 dB efficient speaker….

Definitely, I'll do that video now and post asap.

I just replaced an Arcam AVR20 for this Marantz and Mac. I have great accessories which truly minimize noise caused by wiring interference. This issue is not enhanced by gain, source, cables, anything but proximity of speaker to amp. And the Amp is Dead silent, and my Left speaker about 7 feet away sounds near silent (other than unavoidable electronic energy in walls of a 70 year old house not built to code in the cities, but near silent).

 

[ClassG33]

If it's inductively coupled -- distance is the cheapest shielding

You honor me sir, but I am not that intelligent to know what that means

 

[Golf]

Nothing but Air, my friend. Correct, there are no speaker wires connected, no Analog cables, no digital cables, no interconnects.

OK – that’s bizarre ...

Maybe go try to find any old halogen light bulb, hold it in the air near the McIntosh. Inspect if the bulb starts to glow

 

[ClassG33]

OK – that’s bizarre ...

Maybe go try to find any old halogen light bulb, hold it in the air near the McIntosh. Inspect if the bulb starts to glow

Actually? I'm uneducated so can't tell if you're serious lol

 

[mhardy6647]

You honor me sir, but I am not that intelligent to know what that means

Physically move the amp (it may not take very much distance) "away" (in any direction -- up, down, left, right) from whatever it is inducing noise into -- and the magnitude of the induced noise will drop.