Yeah. The company that used to have the best engineers in the world can't manage to make a working printer. Soon we'll be a nation of salesman trying to swindle each other.
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Would you rather be a golden-ear audiophile or cloth-ear music lover?
- Thread starter Multicore
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Killingbeans
Major Contributor
When life gives you lemons. There's a reason why Denmark makes a sh¤t-ton of money from container shipping and diabetes medications
Where I live same description could be translated as "wood eared".
Golden ear is the same.
I had to Google cloth eared. Not very complimentary
And if Golden Ears make me like the trolls that visit here, I might rather be cloth eared.
I can appreciate that but still no vote from meI had to Google cloth eared. Not very complementary
And if Golden Ears make me like the trolls that visit here, I might rather be cloth eared.
Nor meI can appreciate that but still no vote from me
Cloth is very from wood, interesting how people perceive what they "hear"....or rather what they think others must hear like when they want to take the superior hearing position. Then again to me an audiophile is a gear hound, not someone with a particular taste as to how they perceive it, let alone others....Where I live same description could be translated as "wood eared".
Golden ear is the same.
JBL/Harman' automobile market seem to be where the money is for them. They're still doing decent speakers too.....
JBL even states in their corporate blurbs that they coin money on that crap. Deeply disappointing.
Killingbeans
Major Contributor
High turnover lets you get huge volume discounts from your sub suppliers (hopefully) pushing your margins higher than the competitors can manage.
It's the good old game of beating quality with quantity and keeping your fingers crossed that the bottom won't fall out of the market
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I think this whole "golden ears" thing is one of the things that has killed the mid-fi segment (let's say systems 1000-3000€). The existence of extreme audiophile cult is widely know to general public and when I mention anything about my audio equipment I often get asked if I have raised my cables on lego blocks etc. That meme has poisoned the well and it is hifi industry to blame at least partially. I know so many people who could easily spend the 3-5k in a hifi system if they saw half the benefits we hobbyists see. But it's just something that they don't even consider, sounding too esoteric and complicated.
It wouldn't seem that impossible to get some marketing going and introduce for example these competent all-in-one solutions such as LS50 Wireless as the new thing that self respecting middle aged families should have in their living room to show off in facebook stories.
It wouldn't seem that impossible to get some marketing going and introduce for example these competent all-in-one solutions such as LS50 Wireless as the new thing that self respecting middle aged families should have in their living room to show off in facebook stories.
Calling it mid-fi is part of the problem.I think this whole "golden ears" thing is one of the things that has killed the mid-fi segment (let's say systems 1000-3000€). The existence of extreme audiophile cult is widely know to general public and when I mention anything about my audio equipment I often get asked if I have raised my cables on lego blocks etc. That meme has poisoned the well and it is hifi industry to blame at least partially. I know so many people who could easily spend the 3-5k in a hifi system if they saw half the benefits we hobbyists see. But it's just something that they don't even consider, sounding too esoteric and complicated.
It wouldn't seem that impossible to get some marketing going and introduce for example these competent all-in-one solutions such as LS50 Wireless as the new thing that self respecting middle aged families should have in their living room to show off in facebook stories.
I sold audio gear for 9 years, 5 of that by commission. I looked for people that where interested in the gear and I worked them sometimes for years until they finally gave in and bought something. Lots of demos with no sales but after about 1.5 years things really picked up and my sales supported the wages of multiple people as the company grew. One must be very positive thinking, results oriented and a long term player.I know so many people who could easily spend the 3-5k in a hifi system if they saw half the benefits we hobbyists see. But it's just something that they don't even consider, sounding too esoteric and complicated.
It wouldn't seem that impossible to get some marketing going and introduce for example these competent all-in-one solutions such as LS50 Wireless as the new thing that self respecting middle aged families should have in their living room to show off in facebook stories.
You could still get a decent system for that (grand for source, amp, speakers = $3K but then the next step up is like $3K per component.
But I've found that 3 grand is still too expensive for most people, They might be able to afford it but they don't want it bad enough to pay out that kind of money.
Most civilians have an idea of pricing that they have got from looking in the window of a boutique hi-fi store or from an audiophile friend who has spent big money. The s/h market where the real bargains are is totally unknown to them, even if it isn't then they are overly wary of buying used electronics.
I have friends say 'This sounds great but you spent a fortune, right?' When I say no, 2 grand, they are surprised but it's still too much for them to contemplate splashing out on something to play music on.
A friend asked me to help him get a system but he refused to buy used kit. I said 'Well in that case you will need at least £2K for what you want' - nope, too much so he left it. He earns about £100K a year.
Another friend a bit more experienced (former EE and recording engineer) moved here from SA, couldn't afford to ship his possessions so sold his hifi before he left. Came round mine and picked out a system from my collection - TT, CD, amp, and some KEF Calinda speakers. Total cost £170. I threw in some cables for free,
He invited me round for lunch and a listen. Has the speakers set up in a large concrete room. I tell you now, I know audiophiles who have spent tens of thousands and who would weep at how good that sounded on all sources. But I've found you just cannot convince most civilians to go down that route.
And here lies the problem. The people I (and you) talk about might casually spend 2k for some design lamp or a chair. The cars these guys have can be in 50k€ range. Canada Goose jackets for missus and kids, multi thousand euro wristwatches etc. 3k for hifi system that's already way up there in diminishing returns, doesn't get old or go out of fashion seems like a great deal.
So, what needs to change is the perceived value proposition and then 3k hifi starts to fly off the shelves.
But well, if anyone manages to find out the solution to achieve that, don't post it here. Instead pitch it to the hifi companies as a marketing guru and negotiate small slice of the billions of new sales you will be generating.
DSJR
Major Contributor
Ancient story now, but I remember a client bringing his neighbour in to the store. Said neighbour was a retired bank senior exec (so not short of a few bob) who looked at the B&O 7000 'stack system' (look it up) and declared the £2500 was too much to spend on a sound system. My retort was to politely ask what car he drove, which was a Jag XJ series (told you it was a while ago) which then cost twenty odd thousand quid to buy. He bought a new one every two years, so losing several grand each time. I then poliutely mentioned how a stereo like the B&O would last ten or more years reliably and give no end of enjoyment and he didn't disagree. Thing is now, the B&O system is a collectable having retained good residuals and mostly still running (replacement cartridges cost the earth but thank heavens for Soundsmith re-manufactured cartridges) and all the Jags he may have owned have long been to the scrap heap in the sky after rusting away!
If there is really one thing that gets under my skin with golden-ears, it's fuses! Changing a fuse on the a/c side of a DAC, streamer or amp makes no difference on the DC audio side yet the golden-ears throw out all the audiofool vernacular describing the difference of one fuse over another when describing improved tonality, transparency, smoothness separation, timbre, tone, articulation, energy, presence, emotion, ...
I have been an electronics technician all my life (not an engineer) and I have all the measurement toys like spectrum analyzers and oscilloscopes. I have 'hands on' experience. I thought maybe I was missing something but I am unable to reproduce a measurable change on anything by swapping an a/c fuse.
I have stopped frequenting forums filled with golden-ears because I feel contempt inside. I have been invested in photography, astronomy, and astrophotography but never experienced any member with with the same contempt I feel for golden ears. Is there something wrong me?
I have been an electronics technician all my life (not an engineer) and I have all the measurement toys like spectrum analyzers and oscilloscopes. I have 'hands on' experience. I thought maybe I was missing something but I am unable to reproduce a measurable change on anything by swapping an a/c fuse.
I have stopped frequenting forums filled with golden-ears because I feel contempt inside. I have been invested in photography, astronomy, and astrophotography but never experienced any member with with the same contempt I feel for golden ears. Is there something wrong me?
Killingbeans
Major Contributor
Fellow electronics technician here.
Audiophile fuses are indeed in the top end of voodoo nonsense. Along with "grounding" boxes, stickers/dots, rocks, power cables and what have you.
It gets even more ridiculous when people claim that the fuses are "directional"
I had that same feeling of contempt at some point but I've let it go. It's not constructive, and in the end all you get from it is stress.
Superstition is an integral part of our survival mechanisms. It's hardwired into our DNA.
Some personality types have the ability to see past the superstition when they feel it's beneficial, other personality types have no desire to look past that horizon whatsoever.
Neither of those personality types are "better" than the others. They just go through life with different priorities.
Best thing we can do is to make life easier for those who have the same priorities as ourself. Make evidence and sound reasoning available to those who appreciate it.
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