Windows virtualization software?

[IPunchCholla]

Not really sure this is the right forum as it isn’t directly audio related. If not I’m happy for it to be moved to a better forum. I am looking at recommendations for running Windows software on a M! Mac Mini There is enough software out there that I would like to use that doesn’t have MAC OS ports that running either a virtual machine or another type of emulator would be worthwhile.

The software I am looking to run:
VituaCAD
@pkane’s tools
Hypex’s filter building software for their plate amplifiers

I would prefer something where I don’t have to buy a Windows License, but will take whatever might work best for these software.

Any recommendations?

 

[Apesbrain]

I learned something today:

Best virtual machine software for Mac

We look at the best virtualisation and virtual machine software, and consider other ways you can run Windows and Windows apps on a Mac

www.macworld.com

Apple M chips require "Windows for ARM". And yes, you need a license.

 

[staticV3]

I don't have any recommendation, just know that you can use Windows 10 completely for free, for as long as you want.

When installing Windows, it'll ask for a key, but you can just click on "I don't have a product key". You can then use Win10 indefinitely without ever activating it.

The only limitations will be a watermark in the bottom right corner and I think you can't change the wallpaper.

 

[audio_tony]

Will apps intended for Windows on the Intel x86/64 platform run on Windows for ARM though? Is there some kind of Intel emulation layer?

EDIT: I found this:

PCs powered by Arm provide great application compatibility and allow you to run your existing unmodified x86 win32 applications. Arm apps run natively without any emulation, while x86 and x64 apps run under emulation on Arm devices.

Windows on Arm documentation

Learn more about running Windows on PCs powered by Arm processors. Find guidance on how to build Windows apps for Arm64 devices or iteratively update your existing Windows app to take advantage of Arm64 native capabilities.

learn.microsoft.com

I'm not sure how glitch free audio measurement tools would run in this environment though....

 

[voodooless]

Will apps intended for Windows on the Intel x86/64 platform run on Windows for ARM though? Is there some kind of Intel emulation layer?

Yes, just like x86 MacOS apps run on Arm hardware.

As for Windows emulation/virtualization on MacOs, you could try Crossover. I’ve had mixed results, but I suspect my install may be borked. It’s also not free. Possibly Wine can nowadays also run x86 Windows apps on Arm MacOs? Haven’t tried in quite a while.

 

[audio_tony]

Yes, just like x86 MacOS apps run on Arm hardware.

I think they need Rosetta for that - however my understanding is that Rosetta is not very performant.

 

[IPunchCholla]

Yes, just like x86 MacOS apps run on Arm hardware.

As for Windows emulation/virtualization on MacOs, you could try Crossover. I’ve had mixed results, but I suspect my install may be borked. It’s also not free. Possibly Wine can nowadays also run x86 Windows apps on Arm MacOs? Haven’t tried in quite a while.

I might give crossover a try, I tried Wine, but it didn’t work with Hypex’s software. At least as I tried to do it, but Wine’s instructions are pretty opaque to me, and they have discontinued Mac support since the switch to Apple Silicon.

 

[IPunchCholla]

I don't have any recommendation, just know that you can use Windows 10 completely for free, for as long as you want.

When installing Windows, it'll ask for a key, but you can just click on "I don't have a product key". You can then use Win10 indefinitely without ever activating it.

The only limitations will be a watermark in the bottom right corner and I think you can't change the wallpaper.

Thanks! I didn’t know you could do that with Windows 10.

 

[voodooless]

I think they need Rosetta for that - however my understanding is that Rosetta is not very performant.

Windows has its own emulation layer called WOW64.

As for Rosetta 2, it’s actually quite performant. Certainly not native speed, but close enough for many apps. Some apps can even run at more than native speeds (if you can say that) because they primarily use libraries that already run natively. For the apps lites by the OP, speed is not a problem.

The WOW64 emulation is similar in performance to Rosetta 2.

There are other issues though. For instance the Hypex tool can talk to the DSP over USB. I’m not sure if this is a simple serial port over USB or something else. Usually these things give complications at best, and are impossible to get working at its worst.

 

[voodooless]

Running Windows on Arm in a VM may be the most compatible way:

Microsoft makes Windows-on-Arm in VMs on Macs official

VMware approves even if it's not yet on the approved list

www.theregister.com

I may try that one day..

 

[IPunchCholla]

Well since that is one of my primary use cases (Hypex tool), that iglitchiness is a downer. I thought VMware Fusion might have been the thing, but it looks like the killed the free personal/student version. It might be cheaper and easier just to buy a low end mini windows box or laptop.

 

[voodooless]

It can be had for free it seems:

Windows 11

Virtual machines for Mac

mac.getutm.app

 

[audio_tony]

It might be cheaper and easier just to buy a low end mini windows box or laptop.

This would be my solution.

I do run Arta and WaveSpectra +others under Wine on Linux, but of course that's all the same x86 architecture.

I've not tried pkane's software as yet - however I think his software is built on DotNet or Visual C++ and I know Linux has Mono (DotNet 'equivalent') to support DotNet, however I'm not sure if the Visual C++ distributable can be installed under Wine (I've never had need to, so never tried).

However it is possible to buy used small form factor PCs with a Windows licence quite cheaply on Ebay - that could be an option for you (assuming you don't want to install a full height sound card!).

 

[jhaider]

I used to use Parallels for VCAD and DATS, but got sick of the annual license. A few years ago I bought a separate windows laptop (HP Elitebook X360 - my primary criterion was trackpad properly centered rather than offset like most generics) and primarily use it on my M1 rMBP through Microsoft Remote Desktop. It’s not as good as Screen Sharing from Mac to Mac but works well enough.

You could also just use a cheap off lease little generic desktop and temporarily hook it up to a TV and BT keyboard/mouse to set it up for screen sharing. I bought a laptop because I didn’t want that hassle. You need the “pro” version of windows for Remote Desktop.

 

[Berwhale]

I would buy a separate PC to run the Windows software. You can pickup refurbished business PCs very cheaply. For example, last year I bought a Dell Optiplex 3070 Micro Form Factor with an i3-9100T CPU (supported by Windows 11), 8GB RAM, 120GB SSD and a Windows 10 license for £175 ($220).

 

[IAtaman]

I agree with above posts -probably the easiest solution is to get a mini PC running Windows, and connect to it via MS Remote Desktop. If you still want to try the VM route, I would recommend to give Oracle Virtualbox a try.

 

[middlemarch]

Not a whole lot to add, but first off, Rosetta 2 is very performant, it actually fully compiles the x86 binaries to Arm native the first time you run it, then thereafter runs the recompiled native version. But that's for Mac x86 apps.

For running windows stuff, in my experience Win 11 Arm running in Parallels is the way to go. It's a polished, supported, professional product. But you're best off buying the full Win 11 license. And it ain't all peaches and cream. Win 11 has a really good x86 to Arm translator, as noted above, but it's an on-the-fly translator, so you take a bit of a speed hit every time you run the program. That said, things like MSO and Ratbuddesy run great. The only bug in the ointment I've run into is Multeq-X, which the Microsoft store won't even let me download. No idea what the issue is, but I just see it as a good excuse to save $200. You'd think Audessey would want to be all around competitive with Dirac, but no bueno.