Will I Damage My Speakers? (Building my first setup)

[Morgoth]

Long time lurker on the forums, but finally made an account

So I'm putting together my first home hi-fi system (that'll reside in my living room) and will pull double duties for music listening and for TV. My listening position will be the couch, which will be about 10 feet from the speakers. My main concern is whether the power amp I'm trying to purchase will be overkill for my speakers? I've seen a lot of conflicting things online so I'm pretty confused. I'll list the full setup I intend on purchasing below (I'm open to suggestions as well ).

-(2) Revel Concerta2 F35 *purchased*
-Nord One MP NC252 250W
-Mini DSP SHD Studio
-(2) Monoprice Liquid Spark DAC
-Rythmik L12 Subwoofer (will buy a second one later)

So from my intended setup, I'm planning on pairing the revel f35's with the Nord NC252 amp. At 8 ohms the amp delivers 200 watts (each channel) and at 4 ohms it delivers 250 watts. Since the f35 speakers are 6 ohms, I guess this would equate to about 225 watts of possible power each? If I'm correct with that assertion, this seemingly poses an issue since the recommended amp specs for the speakers are 30-180 watts each. So they can only handle 180 watts but I could potentially drive them with 225 watts if I turn up the volume high enough (from the SHD studio). Will this cause damage in a short burst of higher wattage?

Thanks in advance for any and all help!

 

[McFly]

No Damage will be done. Good choice of components. You have headroom for volume peaks. Enjoy the system.

Your typical power usage will be around 1-100 Watts.

EDIT: Not trying to scare but - the MiniDSP SHD series have a bug/poor implimentation in the Volumio subsystem if you use it - the volume will shoot to 0.0db (100%) if using volume rocker on a smartphone and a UPnP music app. How will you be playing your music? This will likely blow tweeters and bottom out woofers. Do not use the Volumio in the SHD and you have no problem.

 

[Morgoth]

Thanks so much for your help McFly! I'm glad there won't be any issues pairing the amp with my speakers. That bug sounds horrifying... I was planning on using Volumio for Tidal, but I want to stay far, far away from those kinds of issues. Would something like the iFi Zen Blue HiFi Bluetooth Receiver going into the other SHD digital input be good? Would there be any loss in fidelity versus the Volumio route?

 

[direstraitsfan98]

You will be fine. The only damage that you theoretically could do is overheat the voice coil of the bass drivers by playing prolonged heavy bass notes too loudly for too long. I suspect that the Revels will bottom out and you would hear the entire motor rattling around and making a terrible racket before you damage it. You have subwoofers so I assume you cross the mains over. Otherwise no risk. The tweeters are protected from being easily blown up with high value capacitors.

 

[TimW]

There's nothing wrong with having more power than you need. In fact many believe having loads of reserve power brings improved fidelity, and that more is always better.

I own the miniDSP SHD and have used Volumio with Tidal. I did not experience the bug that is reported to happen with UPnP but I don't recommend Volumio because it is not enjoyable to use. A Chromecast Audio is a better streamer than a bluetooth receiver imo.

 

[TimW]

Also I can max out my SHD volume with a digital source and it is not too loud. This is using the balanced outputs connected to an amplifier with 20 dB of gain powering low efficiency (83 dB) speakers. Max volume was further reduced by me using the DSP settings so that I have headroom for EQ.

If you're worried about accidentally setting the SHD to max volume, you could go into the miniDSP settings and lower the gain, thereby reducing the max volume your system can reach.

 

[Morgoth]

Thanks for everyone's input! So would it benefit me to move up to the Nord One MP NC502 500W? For the extra $130, would it add much benefit just to have the extra reserve power?

 

[RayDunzl]

Going from 250W to 500W is a 3dB difference.

 

[SineWave]

Going from 250W to 500W is a 3dB difference.

I have a 10 band graphic EQ. I have a button on it to defeat the eq so all bands revert back to 0db. If I adjust all 10 bands to be at +3, and toggle the defeat button on and off, is that the same loudness effect as swapping out between an amp that has double the power?

I ask because some people say it's "only 3db" as if it is not much of a difference, but it sounds like quite a loud difference to me (maybe I am wrong since I haven't tried this in 20 years.... will try again tonight)

 

[Head_Unit]

Will this cause damage

Here are "Head_Unit’s Rules Of Protection" (speaking as a loudspeaker engineer who later worked in amplifier product planning and automotive testing):
1) If when things start to sound distorted or odd you TURN IT DOWN, you are unlikely to ever break anything.
2) If you constantly "turn it up to 11" you will break something.
3) The amp and speaker power ratings do not matter. Don’t bother “matching” the amp and speaker power. That is a seemingly sensible yet actually meaningless exercise, because:
- Speaker specifications are 92% useless, due to different manufacturers measuring the same specs in different ways on different setups. And then (shudder of horror!) the Marketing Department gets hold of them, yowZa!
- Specs for amps are not thorough since they are measured into resistors for pragmatic reasons and speakers are not resistors at all.
4) Amps' 4 ohm or even 2 ohm rating is the most meaningful even if your speakers are 8 ohms because again the speakers are not resistors. Should be 20-20k Hz, distortion under 1% or it's baloney.
5) For amps "more" power means (IF specs are comparable) at least three times as much due to the logarithmic nature of hearing.
6) You are less likely to damage speakers with a big amp, since let’s face it everyone cranks it up sometime, and a small cheap amp is then more likely to clip and possibly put out DC and ultrasonics (This assumes the speakers are not tiny little pieces of poop).

 

[RayDunzl]

I have a 10 band graphic EQ. I have a button on it to defeat the eq so all bands revert back to 0db. If I adjust all 10 bands to be at +3, and toggle the defeat button on and off, is that the same loudness effect as swapping out between an amp that has double the power?

That should raise the level of what is coming out of the speakers by 3dB.

It is not necessarily representative of an amplifier swap, depending on what factors in the sensitivity and gain equation are or are not equal.

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Swapping to a higher powered amplifier with the same gain factor would result in the same listening level, but the "bigger" amp would accept or require a higher maximum input to reach its higher maximum output.

Example:

Same "gain"
Different "sensitivity"
Different maximum output.

But each should produce the same output power with the same input level.

But the more powerful amps can accept a higher maximum input to reach the higher maximum output levels

Swapping between the three above should result in the same SPL in the room if the input signal level remains the same. You might then wonder why you bought the bigger amp (and the big one is a monster) since it didn't change anything. I have the baby.

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If the three amps had the same sensitivity, then swapping would lead to different SPL levels with the same input level.

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It is also possible a direct swap to a higher powered amplifier would result in a lower listening level with the same input level, if the bigger amp's gain factor is smaller.

I ask because some people say it's "only 3db" as if it is not much of a difference, but it sounds like quite a loud difference to me (maybe I am wrong since I haven't tried this in 20 years.... will try again tonight)

Using the controls I have over my signal:

If someone here said "Turn it up a little":

+3dB probably wouldn't satisfy them. It's not that much at moderate levels.

+6dB would likely satisfy their demand

+10dB is generally considered to be in the area of "twice as loud" when subjectively commented upon, and would likely be "too much" to satisfy the request.

 

[Head_Unit]

If I adjust all 10 bands to be at +3

...then in some designs, the boost will end up higher due to interactions between the bands. You also have to consider the human hearing curve (Fletcher-Munson): while +10 dB is generally considered "twice as loud" that does not really apply to low level sounds, especially at low frequencies, where a much smaller difference can change from totally inaudible to audible.