WiiM pro soundquality as a digital transport and the digital volume control quality when listening to music

[Filio45]

@Tangband Hi. Are you hooking it up to Genelec's over spdif (->AES)?

 

[Tangband]

@Tangband Hi. Are you hooking it up to Genelec's over spdif (->AES)?

my Genelecs are sold. The Genelecs were very good speakers, but I prefer the sound from my Markaudio speakers.
The illusion of depth in the recordings are better.

With that said- Im sure one can use a WiiM Pro for spdif duty to the AES input of SAM monitors as long as the cable is no longer than 3 metres.

What I can say is , purely subjective and I have no measurements to back this up :

The sound from the electrical spdif out with digital volumeregulation from the WiiM pro to a dac, is slightly better than the sound from spdif out with the Yamaha wxc50 in preampmode and volumeregulation. The sound from WiiM pro through electrical spdif to my Rega dac R sounds slightly less synthetical , and have a slightly more perceived impact in the bass than the Yamaha wxc50 had .

The digital transport during those tests has been Apple lossless, mac+DDC spdif to the yamaha spdif in, and WiiM pro spdif in.

Further - the digital volume control in the WiiM is a good one - I can hear no worsening of the sound with -20 dB attenuation ( easy to check because I have passive line level attenuators with -20 dB ability *) compared to 0, full level, and one could probably go down to -30 dB with the digital volume control without worse sound to an external dac.

* picture of my monacor line level attenuators, they have 10k impedance and are transparent to the sound with my Hypex ncore input impedance at 47k. I can recommend these.

 

[Tangband]

Have now checked the sound quality from spdif out on the WiiM pro using a battery powerbank as powersupply for the WiiM, and compairing that with the stock power supply. With my external dac, its impossible to hear any difference .

 

[Filio45]

The sound from the electrical spdif out with digital volumeregulation from the WiiM pro to a dac, is slightly better than the sound from spdif out with the Yamaha wxc50 in preampmode and volumeregulation

Have now checked the sound quality from spdif out on the WiiM pro using a battery powerbank as powersupply for the WiiM, and compairing that with the stock power supply. With my external dac, its impossible to hear any difference .

That sounds encouraging...

Does the optical input work well? I intend to use it in conjunction with the spdif out.

 

[ahofer]

No issues with Wiim Pro Plus and wifi at all in my own home (Amplifi Mesh system). My son has Wiim Pro, none there either with a single consumer unit. Sounds like you might have a defective unit or defective/poor coverage with your wifi.

 

[Tangband]

No issues with Wiim Pro Plus and wifi at all in my own home (Amplifi Mesh system). My son has Wiim Pro, none there either with a single consumer unit. Sounds like you might have a defective unit or defective/poor coverage with your wifi.

I have a difficult room, yes. But the Yamaha wxc50 and Apple tv4k didnt care about that, placed on the same bench.

That sounds encouraging...

Does the optical input work well? I intend to use it in conjunction with the spdif out.

It works perfectly.

 

[Tangband]

More about how to use the PEQ :

How to Use Parametric EQ on WiiM Pro & WiiM Pro Plus: A Comprehensive Guide

How to Use Parametric EQ: A Comprehensive Guide

www.blog.wiimhome.com

Edit: people are complaining that 4 peq is to few - having used peq before, I would take 4 peq filters with variable Q any day over a 32 band EQ , especially If its good executed like in this case.

In a good loudspeakersetup, you dont want to correct the sound more than neccessary anyway - its easy to wheel away and dont get real sound improvements.

 

[BenjaminB]

Another useful test would be to get a mobile app that tests wifi signal strength. There are a bunch of them and all I've tried are reliable. I currently use a freebie called Network Analyzer on Android. Measure as close to the streamer as practical. You want signal strengths at or above -60dBm. In the 50s is definitely good for most any audio use. Since the WiiM has a wireless AC adapter, it should work with a wireless AX source. It won't benefit from the AX features not included in AC but speed, bandwidth, and reliability should be fine as long as there's adequate signal strength.

mmm, radio signal strength is good to have but not always enough. The signal must also be sufficient "pure" (it's rather similar to audio actually). Also WiFi benefits from some cell planning! Agree that it is good to use eg Network Analyzer to see signal strenth and if there are any WiFi neighbours interfering - then one can use some other channels (note that there are not many useable channels in the 2.4 GHz range, for use in one room 5 GHz is much better).
Guess Tangband has put the Wiim pro in a bad spot, surrounded by Apple things and probably exposed for some reflections. Myself, I have multiple WiFi units (at home, in the same room) with no problem whatsoever for Wiim pro. It is of course always better to use a cable connection.
The 802.11 ax, ac and so on standards are all backwards compatible and has sufficient bandwidth for audio.

And then to something completely different ....
The Yamaha WXC-50 shall never be used in preamp mode. Just use it in "player" mode, nothing more. Said before, and now notice Tangband insists do that anyhow!
I started using the WXC-50 in pre-amp mode as the features of the associated app is nice, then for fun tested player mode and realized the striking difference in quality. Tangband has been trashing his WXC-50 on this forum, but ... easily fixed.

Is the Wiim pro then surperior to WXC-50? Well, partly as it does have a better pre-amp design, now also with 4-band PEQ. Otherwise: analog out is about the same quality, digital out is similar and the WXC-50 MusicCast app is superior.
I have a WXC and a Wiim pro, as well as an external DAC, all connected to a pre-amp.

 

[VintageFlanker]

Have now checked the sound quality from spdif out on the WiiM pro using a battery powerbank as powersupply for the WiiM, and compairing that with the stock power supply. With my external dac, its impossible to hear any difference .

I measured both back and forth and observed no difference at all. The is a very little one with analog out, but bot with dig outputs.

 

[Tangband]

mmm, radio signal strength is good to have but not always enough. The signal must also be sufficient "pure" (it's rather similar to audio actually). Also WiFi benefits from some cell planning! Agree that it is good to use eg Network Analyzer to see signal strenth and if there are any WiFi neighbours interfering - then one can use some other channels (note that there are not many useable channels in the 2.4 GHz range, for use in one room 5 GHz is much better).
Guess Tangband has put the Wiim pro in a bad spot, surrounded by Apple things and probably exposed for some reflections. Myself, I have multiple WiFi units (at home, in the same room) with no problem whatsoever for Wiim pro. It is of course always better to use a cable connection.
The 802.11 ax, ac and so on standards are all backwards compatible and has sufficient bandwidth for audio.

And then to something completely different ....
The Yamaha WXC-50 shall never be used in preamp mode. Just use it in "player" mode, nothing more. Said before, and now notice Tangband insists do that anyhow!
I started using the WXC-50 in pre-amp mode as the features of the associated app is nice, then for fun tested player mode and realized the striking difference in quality. Tangband has been trashing his WXC-50 on this forum, but ... easily fixed.

Is the Wiim pro then surperior to WXC-50? Well, partly as it does have a better pre-amp design, now also with 4-band PEQ. Otherwise: analog out is about the same quality, digital out is similar and the WXC-50 MusicCast app is superior.
I have a WXC and a Wiim pro, as well as an external DAC, all connected to a pre-amp.

Yes, agree that the Yamaha sounds really good only in player mode, also from the spdif out, but one looses the ability to use digital volumecontrol, ie one looses the opportunity to use it as a preamp.

Here comes the WiiM with good digital volumeregulation without any SRC and thats a very good thing.

There are some forum members that believe that the digital preamp in Yamaha wxc50 is good enough and that we are only imagining a worsening of the sound. Noone has done any digital measurements of the Yamaha but Im sure it measures mediocre regarding the digital volumecontrol.

 

[Tangband]

I measured both back and forth and observed no difference at all. The is a very little one with analog out, but bot with dig outputs.

Good to hear. No modification needed.

 

[Tangband]

Here is the difference between AirPlay 2 and TIDAL Connect on the WiiM pro. TIDAL hifi from an ipad using AirPlay 2 to the WiiM pro is downconverted to 256 kbit/s.

Using TIDAL connect with WiiM is lossless ( upper picture ). Does TIDAL connect sound slightly better ? Yes.

( Using Apple Music and AirPlay 2 to WiiM pro is also 256 kbps.)

Tidal connect with WiiM pro :

AirPlay 2 is 256 kbps using an ipad to the WiiM, both with TIDAL and Apple music.

It seems that AirPlay 2 is a step backwards from AirPlay 1 regarding soundquality ?

 

[Ravedave85]

I've recently purchased both an Apple TV 4k, no optical out and Wiim Pro and having terrible volume control lag + large jumps in volume from my Apple remote to my trusty Arcam A75+, even if wiim pro is removed. Any advice on how to improve this are welcome, my current data flow is as follows:

Apple TV<eARC>Samsung One Connect>SPDIF>WIIM PRO>SPDIF to Topping E30ii(DAC only mode)>RCA to Arcam amp

Presently planning to return the Wiim as doesn’t add anything to the streaming experience for me as most of my listening is off axis, so 24/96 is fine for me.

 

[VintageFlanker]

as doesn’t add anything to the streaming experience for me as most of my listening is off axis, so 24/96 is fine for me.

I did not get that...

I've recently purchased both an Apple TV 4k, no optical out and Wiim Pro and having terrible volume control lag + large jumps in volume from my Apple remote to my trusty Arcam A75+, even if wiim pro is removed. Any advice on how to improve this are welcome, my current data flow is as follows:

Apple TV<eARC>Samsung One Connect>SPDIF>WIIM PRO>SPDIF to Topping E30ii(DAC only mode)>RCA to Arcam amp

As far as I know, Topping E30II doesn't handle well toslink from TVs. Is it coax or toslink ?

 

[jjk1]

with the Wiim - for airplay I use an ATV version 3 (airplay 1) connected to Wiim via HDMI and also to an Oppo ha-1 over its optical output.
I use the Wiim DAC for tv, ( love to set it to “spoken word“ for tv ) or if I want to apply PEQ to Apple Music over hdmi and out the coax port of the Wiim back to my head amp that is also able to pick up the TV eq over the cross over, or an analog cross from the record out on my speaker amp.
i could toss the old Oppo 105d back in the mix and hook up 2 head amps to apply EQ to if I wanted over the Wiim optical output.
i have yet to hear a difference in any of these audio routs except when I apply EQ and it all just works. I love the thing.

 

[Ravedave85]

I did not get that...

As far as I know, Topping E30II doesn't handle well toslink from TVs. Is it coax or toslink

Toslink in from the Samsung one connect box.

For the last 12 months the toslink connection from the tv using only the tv apps has worked well with my amp.

What DACs or amps with onboard dac play nicely with toslink, especially with an Apple TV signal?

 

[Tangband]

I've recently purchased both an Apple TV 4k, no optical out and Wiim Pro and having terrible volume control lag + large jumps in volume from my Apple remote to my trusty Arcam A75+, even if wiim pro is removed. Any advice on how to improve this are welcome, my current data flow is as follows:

Apple TV<eARC>Samsung One Connect>SPDIF>WIIM PRO>SPDIF to Topping E30ii(DAC only mode)>RCA to Arcam amp

Presently planning to return the Wiim as doesn’t add anything to the streaming experience for me as most of my listening is off axis, so 24/96 is fine for me.

1. Try use airplay from the Apple tv4k , just for the sound - to the WiiM . This is the way I use my Apple tv, and then I can use the Apple TV4k remote control to control the volume digitaly. Then you dont need any hdmi or toslink connection to your topping 30II, just the usual spdif cable from the WiiM to the topping.

2. Dont use wifi for the WiiM - try ethernet instead. I also had terrible volume lag using wifi from the WiiM, also when using AirPlay for the sound from Apple tv4 k. I bought a homeplug to get ethernet from the power socket - much better.

 

[Tangband]

Using an Apple iPad charger rated at 5V 2.1A instead of the WiiM power supply betters the function of airplay stability and Wi-Fi , - this is my experience with my unit.

WiiM pro + power supply can probably be bettered - measurements

Hans Beekhuyzen has done measurements - the original power supply to the WiiM pro and pro+ sags and wont deliver 5 volts at 1A. He says soundquality is improved by the other tested power supplies. Comments on this ?

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Tangband]

Warning - subjective soundreview.

Longtherm use using the stock supply, the battery powerbank vs an Apple charger for ipad from 2012. The Apple charger are more stable, the unit never crasches. The music from digital out is somewhat flowing better and more longtherm pleasing with the Apple charger . Its a very small difference but there it is. I was wrong earlier that there were no differences. The battery powerbank ? - more stable than stock unit but not better sound.

Tested a couple of days against a Linn Klimax DS/0 renew with Kazoo using digital volume regulation om both WiiM pro -Rega dac R and the klimax, the sound is very good and very, very similar using TIDAL connect. The WiiM pro is as good as digital transport as the Linn Klimax DS/0. No PEQ was used in the WiiM pro during those listening tests. Both streamers connected with ethernet cables.

One thing I have discovered is the volume app in TIDAL is slightly worse sounding than playing TIDAL through the WIIM app. This is differences in the digital domain that is very hard to prove though.

There are some statement on internet now that says the WiiM pro is not especially good as a digital transport.
Alpha audio, 13th note and Hans Beekhuyzen has made those claims.

They are absolutely wrong, and I can say this after testing against one of the worlds best sounding streamers from 2007, the Klimax DS/0.

 

[Purité Audio]

I take it all of these comparisons and therefore your conclusions were performed using sighted testing?
Keith