Why The Watt is so big on Active Subwoofer?

[Gundud]

How do you know you're only using "25%"? Still, depends on many other things you're not considering with the use of your old Pioneer as an amp for passive subs. What are the subs particularly? What are your spl requirements at what distance?

Yeah I can see why this is confusing. I said 25% because I only put the volume knob on my Pioneer VSX 9900 at 9 o'clock. On denon it would show db, but on VSX its basically scale from 1 to 30 and the dial is set on 8.

I'm using Cerwin Vega HT10D, Sw12B and NHT SW2p. I think most of them are at 93db sensitivity.

 

[Chrispy]

93dB sensitivity is pretty good. Are the subs equidistant from your MLP? That's all your Denon can do with its internal splitters (no true separate treatment of subs). Sorry for the confusion in any case I would get some proper external amps likely of better capability than the old Pioneer receiver....and running A+B could present impedance issues depending on the sub particulars (let alone the variety of subs). Good luck in any case

 

[Gundud]

93dB sensitivity is pretty good. Are the subs equidistant from your MLP? That's all your Denon can do with its internal splitters (no true separate treatment of subs). Sorry for the confusion in any case I would get some proper external amps likely of better capability than the old Pioneer receiver....and running A+B could present impedance issues depending on the sub particulars (let alone the variety of subs). Good luck in any case

Almost equality distant, that's why I'm really hoping that this minidsp works so I can tweak delay and sound level.

Thanks for the convo, appreciated your time, and now I need to google what you mean with A+B could present impendence issues. All this 3 subs is 8 ohm so hopefully that is okay.

 

[Chrispy]

Oh, and position of a volume knob means very little on its own.

 

[Chrispy]

Almost equality distant, that's why I'm really hoping that this minidsp works so I can tweak delay and sound level.

Thanks for the convo, appreciated your time, and now I need to google what you mean with A+B could present impendence issues. All this 3 subs is 8 ohm so hopefully that is okay.

Doubtful subs are all 8 ohm IMO. Even if an optimistic nominal rating. Minidsp can be great for creating proper delays/crossover, but not amp needs.....no worries, appreciate your continued conversation even tho I somewhat misunderstood where you were going with the post. I'm somewhat a bassoholic, tho

 

[AnalogSteph]

If the bass is already plenty loud enough as-is, I would suggest weeding out one of the 10" subs so the poor old Pioneer has an easier life running only two on channel A left and right... I don't think it is really rated for 4 ohm loads.

For use as a pure power amp (main AVR LFE out --> Pioneer CD/Tape/Tuner/Aux in), 9 o'clock seems way too low a volume setting... that's generally about unity overall gain, not 26-29 dB. I would check what LFE gain on the main AVR ends up at, I bet it's jacked way up. I would shoot for about 11-12 o'clock and do the whole measurement dance on the main AVR again. (I mean, with two subs you are gaining between 3 and 6 dB, with 3 it could be up to 9 dB, and they may be somewhat more sensitive than the main speakers, but I don't see how this would amount to 20+ dB.)

Don't tell me it doesn't have this feature... in that case you would have to break out a measurement microphone and REW. Setting sub level, delay and phase manually is no doubt possible but tedious. A dedicated sub plate amp would generally give you a phase control, at least a 0/180° switch. DSP is more powerful than that, of course.

 

[Vini darko]

Subwoofer soft parts are heavy and stiff , requiering more energy to move wich is compounded by the massive excusion capabilities. Also coil gap in the motor needs to be fairly large to accommodate the the expansion of the coil as it heats up hurting efficiency.
With ported subs , provided the coil can take it. At or near tuning frequency the port takes over making the majority of sound. And silly power can be applied to the sub without running out of excursion.

 

[abdo123]

Yap you right. I'm using sub out from AVR to the Pioneer AVR and hooked the possive sub to L+R (A) and L (B) and turn A+B .

I would put the volume knob on the Pioneer to half way (12'oclock) and never touch it again after the the Audessy calibration

 

[Chrispy]

I would put the volume knob on the Pioneer to half way (12'oclock) and never touch it again after the the Audessy calibration

Setting gain that way, like the Audyssey/avr reco of halfway on the dial is only so meaningful....what about a sub with a proper dB scale?

 

[abdo123]

Setting gain that way, like the Audyssey/avr reco of halfway on the dial is only so meaningful....what about a sub with a proper dB scale?

the subwoofers are already gain matched since they're powered by the same amplifier (the Pioneer)

Audessy will do SPL matching anyway so -30dBFS is 75dBSPL. by raising the volume dial on the Pioneer (and leaving it alone afterwards) you're just giving the Denon more headroom to work with before it starts clipping or distorting.

 

[Chrispy]

your subwoofers are already gain matched since they're powered by the same amplifier (the Pioneer)

Audessy will do SPL matching anyway so -30dBFS is 75dBSPL. by raising the volume dial on the Pioneer (and leaving it alone afterwards) you're just giving the Denon more headroom to work with before it starts clipping or distorting.

So how did you match the levels between the other speakers (assuming) powered by the avr vs the subs by the old receiver?

 

[abdo123]

So how did you match the levels between the other speakers (assuming) powered by the avr vs the subs by the old receiver?

the Denon / Audessy calibration matches all the levels.

As long as you leave the volume knob alone on the Pioneer (preferably somewhere mid-way like I said at 12'oclock) and use the Denon's volume knob the experience should be very enjoyable.

if you're playing DJ and rotating the volume knob of the pioneer all the time then you're changing the tonality of your system.

 

[Chrispy]

the Denon / Audessy calibration matches all the levels.

As long as you leave the volume knob alone on the Pioneer (preferably somewhere mid-way like I said at 12'oclock) and use the Denon's volume knob the experience should be very enjoyable.

if you're playing DJ and rotating the volume knob of the pioneer all the time then you're changing the tonality of your system.

I was more intereted in the OP's whole procedure rather than what might have happened. I am quite familiar with Audyssey setup in any case.

 

[abdo123]

I was more intereted in the OP's whole procedure rather than what might have happened. I am quite familiar with Audyssey setup in any case.

Well you quoted me not the OP I also happen to run a combination of passive subwoofers.

 

[Chrispy]

Well you quoted me not the OP I also happen to run a combination of passive subwoofers.

Good point sort of

 

[abdo123]

What are the particulars of your setup ? I also use passive diy subs....just because I didn't want to build amps into the boxes.....

I use two passive subs in my living room (~1.25 meters away from me) powered by an Aiyima A07 with a beefy power supply (~70W of continuous power). For music it's absolutely enough. However for movies I can see that I'm not there yet, but finding active subwoofers with decent WAF is quite difficult.

I feel most subwoofers are made aesthetically to be sold to Teenagers (black with a Matt finish).

 

[Chrispy]

I use two passive subs in my living room (~1.25 meters away from me) powered by an Aiyima A07 with a beefy power supply (~70W of continuous power). For music it's absolutely enough. However for movies I can see that I'm not there yet, but finding active subwoofers with decent WAF is quite difficult.

I feel most subwoofers are made aesthetically to be sold to Teenagers (black with a Matt finish).

I feel most "audiophiles" have no clue about subs and how to implement them. Don't have WAF to contend with either. YMMV>

 

[abdo123]

I feel most "audiophiles" have no clue about subs and how to implement them.

because most of them think they're optional lol.

 

[Trell]

Passive subwoofers.

If you mean that passive subwoofers is only good for short distances and music, then you are wrong.

 

[AnalogSteph]

Yeah. There is no fundamental reason why a passive sub couldn't play just as loud as an active one - people are building entire passive DBAs powered by PA amps. That said, the pre-built passive subs you are likely to find on the used market may be of the more sensitive but less deep-reaching variety with less power handling than modern ones, as they are probably 25 years old and dedicated sub drivers still had some way to go at the time (and so did their plate amps - Class D changed quite a lot in this field).