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Why has the loudness war not ended yet?

Zensō

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So why optimize to the lowest quality instead of the highest? I understand that "most" listeners are listening through earbuds or BT speakers, but what I don't grasp is why that matters.
Explain please. Why is having high dynamic range through transducers like earbuds and BT speakers a bad thing?
It’s not a matter of quality, but consistency of volume. When listening with high background noise, or with music played at low volume as background music, the quiet passages may drop below the ambient noise level when the peaks are at the desired level.
 

HiFidFan

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It’s not a matter of quality, but consistency of volume. When listening with high background noise, or with music played at low volume as background music, the quiet passages may drop below the ambient noise level when the peaks are at the desired level.

Thanks. It sucks that if you want to listen to the same tracks in your living/listening room, then the next day in your car, you're listening to DR optimized for the car, in your living room. Great. :facepalm:
 

Beershaun

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Zensō

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Thanks. It sucks that if you want to listen to the same tracks in your living/listening room, then the next day in your car, you're listening to DR optimized for the car, in your living room. Great. :facepalm:
I hear you. The reality is that an overwhelming majority of people will never sit down in the optimum position in front of a stereo system specifically to listen to music. It was always a rare occurrence, even more so today.
 

Robin L

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I hear you. The reality is that an overwhelming majority of people will never sit down in the optimum position in front of a stereo system specifically to listen to music. It was always a rare occurrence, even more so today.
On the other hand, the quality of headphone replay has never been better, there's more good headphone gear on the market now than ever before. From the standpoint of "optimum position" headphones offer an "optimal" position, though some prefer loudspeakers. I've always preferred open backed headphones in a quiet room. Right now I've got the best headphone gear I've owned so far. And I listen to recordings from all eras. Even pre-Dolby classical recordings have plenty of compression in the form of gain-riding. If one listens to recordings from the last century, one finds that most recordings deploy compression in one form or another. In order for a recording to be workable in a domestic environment some compression must be involved.
 

MGG

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Acoustic music. Classical, Jazz, Folk, various genres under the rubric of "World Music". Most pop music has some compression, all "Rock" is compressed. If it's "ultimate fidelity" you seek, then you're seeking the obscure because most really popular music is produced for the largest audience.

This is a lovely obscurity that takes full advantage of the potential dynamics, a funny and very well realized parody of the concept of the "Audiophile" record:

View attachment 126020

Mirroring and cropping The Dog!
 
OP
A

abdo123

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One of the many mysteries that I've yet to uncover is why physical (CD/LP) releases are still brickwalled in 2021. like you already got my money and I will most likely listen to a CD or LP in a quiet environment.

Also CDs and LPs give the highest amount of money to the publisher. they should suck our dicks to buy them when 10$ a month subscription gives me access to almost all the music humanity has ever created.
 

Robin L

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HiFidFan

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Zensō

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On the other hand, the quality of headphone replay has never been better, there's more good headphone gear on the market now than ever before. From the standpoint of "optimum position" headphones offer an "optimal" position, though some prefer loudspeakers. I've always preferred open backed headphones in a quiet room. Right now I've got the best headphone gear I've owned so far. And I listen to recordings from all eras. Even pre-Dolby classical recordings have plenty of compression in the form of gain-riding. If one listens to recordings from the last century, one finds that most recordings deploy compression in one form or another. In order for a recording to be workable in a domestic environment some compression must be involved.
The same holds true for quality headphones though. I don’t personally know a single person who owns high end headphones. I have lots of musician friends and those that do own headphones only go as far as low end studio monitors such as the M50X. They mostly think I’m nuts for spending what I’ve spent on headphones. The fact that Sennheiser is trying to get out of the consumer headphone business says a lot, I think. Our little audiophile world is minuscule when compared to the mainstream, regardless of whether we’re talking headphones or stereo systems.
 

Robin L

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The same holds true for quality headphones though. I don’t personally know a single person who owns high end headphones. I have lots of musician friends and those that do own headphones only go as far as low end studio monitors such as the M50X. They mostly think I’m nuts for spending what I’ve spent on headphones. The fact that Sennheiser is trying to get out of the consumer headphone business says a lot, I think. Our little audiophile world is minuscule when compared to the mainstream, regardless of whether we’re talking headphones or stereo systems.
Used to have Stax earspeakers with the tubed energizer/amplifier. The Drop 6XX 'phones [with the Topping E/L 30 combo] overall sounds better, smoother on top, much better bass. Yes our world is small, but it's still evolving and still making audible improvements. It's no more of a lost cause now than it has ever been, the issue has been the same: Sturgeon's law will always apply.
 

Zensō

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Used to have Stax earspeakers with the tubed energizer/amplifier. The Drop 6XX 'phones [with the Topping E/L 30 combo] overall sounds better, smoother on top, much better bass. Yes our world is small, but it's still evolving and still making audible improvements. It's no more of a lost cause now than it has ever been, the issue has been the same: Sturgeon's law will always apply.
I totally agree. The point I was trying to make (not very successfully) is simply that producers need to cater to their primary audience, and in other than niche markets, that’s going to be people listening in ways that are not congruent with audiophiles priorities.
 

Robin L

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I totally agree. The point I was trying to make (not very successfully) is simply that producers need to cater to their primary audience, and in other than niche markets, that’s going to be people listening in ways that are not congruent with audiophiles priorities.
Apple earbuds are about as bad as the earbuds I used in the mid-sixties with my Viscount pocket portable AM. I've been around folks playing music via their smartphone's speakers, sounded just as bad as the speaker on my Viscount.
 

Soniclife

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Unless the dynamics are limited, the sound will be useless for most listeners.
I listen to lots of music from the past. In the 78 era, the recordings were dynamically limited because of the self-noise of 78s. When LPs happened, most popular music was first heard on AM radio. That music was [heavily] compressed because the stations wanted as much range as possible and the playback devices included a lot of portable radios and car radios.
Indeed this has been going on since the beginning of recorded music, FM radio had it's own compression wars between stations in the 70s, and translation has been targeting cars and kitchen radios since someone came up with the idea of translation.
I'm sure things mainly got worse simply because the tools have got easier to overuse.
 

Zensō

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Apple earbuds are about as bad as the earbuds I used in the mid-sixties with my Viscount pocket portable AM. I've been around folks playing music via their smartphone's speakers, sounded just as bad as the speaker on my Viscount.
The good news is that Apple AirPod Pros and the new AirPod Max headphones are pretty good when EQ’d, either through the usual software solutions or even the built-in iOS “Headphone Accommodations”.
 

Robin L

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Indeed this has been going on since the beginning of recorded music, FM radio had it's own compression wars between stations in the 70s, and translation has been targeting cars and kitchen radios since someone came up with the idea of translation.
I'm sure things mainly got worse simply because the tools have got easier to overuse.
It starts right about here, with automated compression for mastering:

R0d827dd44c2e379b01eec81b11fd9900.jpg
 

Soundstage

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What about active noise cancellation? Apple sells headphones with this feature that defeats the needs for CompresIon.
 

Putter

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Truth. I saw a electronic music tutorial a while back of a renonwed DJ/artist and he was eschewing the need to compress the track for streaming purposes. I have listened to music of different genres going back some decades and i honestly can't stand to listen to stuff coming out today because of the shit quality.

My CD collection from the late 80's and 90's is my pride and joy. I find it difficult to listen to overly compressed recordings. First you turn the volume down because it's too loud, then it's too soft. However that's tends to be the only way that I can stand to listen to these recordings.

Truth is there's very little I would buy unless it's a multitrack recording such as a SACD, BluRay music, or even a DVD Concert disc which I'll admit I don't really hear any significant differences from the loss of information due to data compression vs. loudness war compression.
 

Spkrdctr

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Right. But my point is, if the mixing/mastering is optimized for ear buds/soundbars, why would one waste any resources on hifi 2 channel gear?

A winner! Why waste the money. There are reasons to waste big bucks on home theater but not two channel. You can still go mega two channel but I wouldn't. I do not have hundreds of records that are made for two channel so it is not important to me.
 
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