Why don’t ASR members laud Neumann speakers?

[mitchco]

I'm not familiar with ANSI/CEA 2034-A, but an in room response depends not only on the speaker's on- and off axis behaviour, but also on the room dimensions, reflection index, and listening distance relative to the room dimensions.

Studio monitors are often designed for a specific listening distance (or range):

• Small nearfield monitors for close listening have a broad dispersion angle so that the mixing engineer sitting at the mixing console can move left or right without leaving the sweet spot. This broad angle means that such a monitor throws more high frequency energy off axis which may result in a less tilted in room response at longer listening distances.
• Bigger monitors designed for longer listening distances have a smaller dispersion angle (due to the longer listening distance a broad angle is not required to stay in the sweet spot) to reduce reflections so that the engineer hears more direct sound (relative to reflected sound) despite sitting farther away. This would also result in a more tilted in room response.

For example the KH-310 has a dispersion angle of about +/- 50 degree, the KH-420 about +/- 40 degree.

Sure, I get it. Have a look at my Avatar

 

[mitchco]

Could software EQ suffice to make a downward sloping response, even if a speaker has a flat in-room response?
If I remember correctly, room-EQ should only be used up to 300 Hz, otherwise it would sound unnatural. But is there a correct way to correct a speaker slope? Or can it only be done by designing a speaker in such way a downward in-room slope is already achieved?

Yes to the first q. Unnatural if eq'ing in the blind with a speaker that has a non smooth on axis and/or off axis response. Yes, to the last question see Harman loudspeakers in particular with a few others like the D&D 8c participating.

 

[badboygolf16v]

I have 2 x KH80 with 1 x KH805. They are very good in my small room. I don't know if it's the directivity or the linear phase crossover but the stereo image is very good.

Good luck getting the DSP app to work, it steadfastly refuses to work with my setup, and Neumann have no answer. It's a real shame as it's a major selling feature of the KH80s.

 

[Biblob]

Yes to the first q. Unnatural if eq'ing in the blind with a speaker that has a non smooth on axis and/or off axis response. Yes, to the last question see Harman loudspeakers in particular with a few others like the D&D 8c participating.

So if smooth off axis is achieved but flat on axis, EQ will be fine to use to get a downward slope?

 

[LTig]

Sure, I get it. Have a look at my Avatar

Aeehmmm - yes

 

[Ron Texas]

Many studio monitors have a high frequency shelf switch which may provide a downward sloping response. It's -2db on the JBL LSR's and my 305's measure with a downward in room response.

 

[JJB70]

I guess it is a competitive market and if the company is not targeting the consumer segment then it is reasonable to expect their profile in that segment to be low. The professional monitor producers are serving a different market from consumer led brands,, although some of them do have a presence in both markets (such as JBL, Dynaudio and Yamaha).

 

[Ron Texas]

My understanding is the pro audio market is much larger than the audiophile market. As for consumers, they will go to Best Buy and get Klipsch, Polk or whatever, and probably a sound bar.

 

[Purité Audio]

Other way round I believe domestic audio is far larger.
Previously ‘pro’ brands tend to migrate into domestic, ATC exhibit at Hi-End venues far more now than they did.
Keith

 

[Vintage57]

The Neumeinns are on their way, a pair of KH 420s and a pair of KH 805s subs should arrive late next week

As per correspondence with Markus Wolff of Neumann and as seen in this clip using the KH 870s subs which are the KH 805s big brother. The mains and subs are the same width so stacking can be a viable option.

In keeping with this information the plan is to stack KH 420 on the KH 805 as per this clip. In the clip they show the KH 870 sub bins which I think would be overkill for my home environment. Also the KH 420 will be at optimum height for my lp with the KH 805

I'm expecting to be suitably impressed and ready to part with my old speakers.

 

[Ron Texas]

@Vintage57 happy listening. Marcus looks very German.

 

[soundwave76]

But weirdly people here get extremely excited about kii and Dutch & Dutch. I have nothing against those two but you would think k+h and genelec would get more love.

There are a few of us here who love Genelec and also do remember to mention that when ever possible <insert heart emoji>

The Genelec SAM Master Series would definetly give the Neumann 420 a good fight (and probably win)

https://www.genelec.com/studio-monitors/sam-master-studio-monitors

 

[Juhazi]

So if smooth off axis is achieved but flat on axis, EQ will be fine to use to get a downward slope?

For sure yes! I am not sure of every possible EQ, but usually also room-eq gives the user possibility set "target curves" from library or freehand. Or just use low Q adjustments for the treble like the good-ole tone controls did!

 

[Vintage57]

There are a few of us here who love Genelec and also do remember to mention that when ever possible <insert heart emoji>

The Genelec SAM Master Series would definetly give the Neumann 420 a good fight (and probably win)

https://www.genelec.com/studio-monitors/sam-master-studio-monitors

I can see it now, in one corner the Neumann 420 and in the other the Genelec 1237A. It would be a good match I'm certain. A perfect case for independent testing by Amir's new project. They are both top of the line speakers that won't break the bank and are not going to be tested by Stereophile or HiFi News.

 

[LTig]

There are a few of us here who love Genelec and also do remember to mention that when ever possible <insert heart emoji>

The Genelec SAM Master Series would definetly give the Neumann 420 a good fight (and probably win)

https://www.genelec.com/studio-monitors/sam-master-studio-monitors

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Probably not if you compare within the same price range.

 

[LTig]

@Vintage57 happy listening. Marcus looks very German.

Maybe, but this is not Markus Wolff in the video.

 

[Ron Texas]

Maybe, but this is not Markus Wolff in the video.

Then the man in the video looks very German.

 

[Ron Texas]

Other way round I believe domestic audio is far larger.
Previously ‘pro’ brands tend to migrate into domestic, ATC exhibit at Hi-End venues far more now than they did.
Keith

Perhaps all of domestic audio, but I still believe pro audio outsells audiophile products. If not in dollar volume, but in units. Just go into a Guitar Center store. They are huge. Other than Magnolia in Best Buy, there are very few stores selling to audiophiles here. There are a bunch of by appointment only guys who do home theater and automation. Local contractors call it low voltage. For a big city, Houston is kind of an audiophile desert. There is more going on in Austin which is a much smaller city.

 

[Biblob]

For sure yes! I am not sure of every possible EQ, but usually also room-eq gives the user possibility set "target curves" from library or freehand. Or just use low Q adjustments for the treble like the good-ole tone controls did!

Than I would suppose that the flat in-room line, is something that would make the Genelecs, Neumans etc. to the same level as Revel, JBL etc. As is brought up that this may be a factor why people prefer these.

 

[Juhazi]

By the way big active Genelecs with GLM and SAM are getting quite popular among hifi'sts here in Finland. Even I participated a factory day (and sauna evening) for hifi people two years ago! They made a blind listening test to us, the other speaker was proto of S360.

https://www.prosoundnetwork.com/business/the-next-generation-of-genelec