What's the next logical upgrade following the HD6XX?

[Jimbob54]

Lately, yes. Since there have been somewhat new developments since 2010 and forwards, the HD 6X0 line has been quoted as slow, not very resolving, and a plain simple "mid-fi" solution. I still think that family is pretty great compared to other dynamic drivers of nowadays and for the price they are selling them right now, they are an absolute steal. Upgrading will get you somewhat better measurements (mostly distortion and subbass extension), but it isn't a huge difference. Sometimes the tone you find some people referring to this line of headphones can convey that they are "low-fidelity", exaggerating their weaknesses, as an example, there is the comment that these are "muddy" and "bloated"; this can be explained by looking at their frequency response where you can see a 2-4 dB hump between 100 and 300 Hz. This can be easily removed by EQ if you really don't like it

Another "issue" they have is that they lack subbass (considered from 10 to 25 Hz). This is true, but we have to put this in context. Even the bassiest music will not have a lot if any musical content below 20 Hz (heck, even some cheap ADCs have a limit of 20 Hz), so it shouldn't be a problem unless you want a subwoofer on your head, something these headphones aren't. Also, they are only 5 dB down from ruler-flat bass at 25 Hz (and this is the same bass extension my LCD-2 Fazor have), and only roll-off to -10 dB at 10 Hz. At 50 Hz they are completely neutral in the bass region and they stay neutral the whole frequency range up to 20 kHz. That is something I have yet to find in ANY headphone (no piercing schlongs, no Mariana deep dips, no spiky behaviors, none of that) (excluding the HD650 hump that can be EQ'd away). The only reason I don't say they are the best is because of the rather high distortion compared to newer drivers, but their FR is enviable IMO.

This is the reason I still use them, even though I have both the HD 800 and the LCD-2 Fazor, because my HD 6XX can do so many things right and only getting a few slightly wrong. I wanted to sell them at a time, but now if I had to sell my headphones, I would stay with the HD 6XX for the reasons I already explained. I appreciate that headphones this old could get sound so right, that improvements are no more in every aspect, they are more compartmentalized in an area or a few areas. I still am waiting for a better headphone that can improve the few things the HD 6XX do wrong while keeping everything it does right. Maybe you have a different opinion, but this is what I found after reading countless measurements and trying multiple pairs from cheap to top of the line flagships.

I own the 600. Currently out on long loan. My trouble was I got the bug and bought lots of models that I think are better (including 800) and I just found no reason to return. And I do find the holes are that but too small for my lugs, which might explain my reluctance to go back.

But I agree, they are good cans. And for the price they can be had, a bargain

 

[KeithPhantom]

I own the 600. Currently out on long loan. My trouble was I got the bug and bought lots of models that I think are better (including 800) and I just found no reason to return. And I do find the holes are that but too small for my lugs, which might explain my reluctance to go back.

But I agree, they are good cans. And for the price they can be had, a bargain

I feel privileged of having multiple pairs of "high-end headphones" to listen to, and to discover that price does not equate quality. There is nothing wrong in preferring other headphones (they are really subjective), but with that post, I wanted to dismantle some of the myths many people in the most visited forums are spreading about this family of headphones, not only providing my subjective impressions, also I am providing measurements (done by others, I don't have a mic head) to provide the best evidence I can.

 

[faisal2003456]

I always found the HD600 to be rather power hungry. Sure, many amps can drive it to volume, but the sound will suffer greatly. Perhaps many of the newer complaints stem from such inadequate amplification. That being said I found them pleasant, resolving, and worthy of the audiophile label. Sure the sr-009, hd800, and abyss are all superior; but the hd600 can go against any sub-$1000 headphone. At $200 for the HD6xx you will not have to upgrade for a very long time.

 

[Jimbob54]

I always found the HD600 to be rather power hungry. Sure, many amps can drive it to volume, but the sound will suffer greatly. Perhaps many of the newer complaints stem from such inadequate amplification. That being said I found them pleasant, resolving, and worthy of the audiophile label. Sure the sr-009, hd800, and abyss are all superior; but the hd600 can go against any sub-$1000 headphone. At $200 for the HD6xx you will not have to upgrade for a very long time.

I think you're right. Out of a portable or a lot of built in headphone amps on receivers, they do lack. But from a "proper" amp they do open up a lot

 

[Racheski]

Oh, I am sure he does, they are great cans. Im only recently discovering how good .

My version of the cable debacle gives the better hi-fi urban myth though ;-)

Some a-hole on HeadFi accused DCA of using the Hirose connectors only to increase profits on post-sale cables, so Dan gave some very candid answers on why he uses them:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/aeo...s-and-discussion.918311/page-22#post-15504439
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/aeon-2-closed-impressions-and-discussion.918311/page-25

100% agree the "dummer" A2O stock cable is disappointing. It fails my 2 prong test for good cables: (1) plop factor, i.e. how flat the cable rests on top of your desk or body, and (2) whether the para-cord surrounding the wires has a snug fit with minimal give. I'm not a DIYer for cables (yet), so I found a guy on Etsy who makes custom cables at very reasonable prices (AudiophileNinja), and I have a custom-made Hirose cable arriving today. He did a great job on a replacement cable for the HD6XX, so I highly recommend him.

 

[KeithPhantom]

I think you're right. Out of a portable or a lot of built in headphone amps on receivers, they do lack. But from a "proper" amp they do open up a lot

Impressively, my phone is able to drive them (except my HD 800 because its ~600 ohm peak at 100 Hz impedance, and because of that, they sound bass light) with no changes in its sound signature (seems to provide enough voltage and current). Sennheiser also said they made them more efficient.

 

[Racheski]

I feel privileged of having multiple pairs of "high-end headphones" to listen to, and to discover that price does not equate quality.

I believe for the most part price does equal quality for the headphone market, but the quality consumers are paying for does not necessarily impact how good the headphones sound. For example (and this may not be the best one), I have never tried ZMF headphones, but it seems like the vast majority of people who try them love 'em. However, I think the custom wood cups that Zach uses drive the price up by hundreds of dollars and do nothing for the sound (correct me if I'm wrong here), although they give ZMFs a beautiful and unique aesthetic. We have been talking about the poor stock cables for the Aeon 2, but maybe DCA is saving money on the cables so they can afford carbon fiber in the ear cups. Or the HD800s where Sennheiser charges a premium for the manufacture and assembly in Germany with highly skilled workers.

 

[KeithPhantom]

Or the HD800s where Sennheiser charges a premium for the manufacture and assembly in Germany with highly skilled workers

That is what makes me appreciate the great lengths Sennheiser went from 2003 to 2009 to create the HD 800: the used their own equalization curve to create the frequency response (loudness equalized diffuse field [I would like to know more about this]), modeled the airflow of the headphone, used a somewhat rare derivative of the dynamic driver (ring radiator or compression drivers), increased the driver size, actually investigated the HRTF effect of headphones and how to exploit that fact, used revolutionary materials and construction, the QC and QA that went into them. They are impressive from conception to the final product.

 

[stevenswall]

Does the Focal Clear ever dip under $1000? I liked that the best of their line at a convention. The Professional one I found later looks amazing too in red and black.

 

[Berwhale]

...it's just some method to allocate ratings so they can rate stuff.

Well, I think there's a clue to why that is in the name of the website

Personally, I see no issues in RTings approach as long as they are honest and open about their choice of target curve and they are consistent in it's application.

If one was attempting to establish an objective measure for soundstage, then it seems reasonable for one to pick a datum to measure from. You may question the choice of datum, but this does not imply that the approach itself is unscientific.

I would be interested to know if anyone has devised a DBT for soundstage or a similar immeasurable quantity for headphones.

 

[Jimbob54]

That is what makes me appreciate the great lengths Sennheiser went from 2003 to 2009 to create the HD 800: the used their own equalization curve to create the frequency response (loudness equalized diffuse field [I would like to know more about this]), modeled the airflow of the headphone, used a somewhat rare derivative of the dynamic driver (ring radiator or compression drivers), increased the driver size, actually investigated the HRTF effect of headphones and how to exploit that fact, used revolutionary materials and construction, the QC and QA that went into them. They are impressive from conception to the final product.

Which makes me wonder if they hit their target curve given the received wisdom that they are way too trebly (having eq them, I agree).

 

[KeithPhantom]

Which makes me wonder if they hit their target curve given the received wisdom that they are way too trebly (having eq them, I agree).

I have no idea what they were trying to achieve. Didn't they listen to their own headphones before shipping them?

 

[maverickronin]

That is what makes me appreciate the great lengths Sennheiser went from 2003 to 2009 to create the HD 800: the used their own equalization curve to create the frequency response (loudness equalized diffuse field [I would like to know more about this]), modeled the airflow of the headphone, used a somewhat rare derivative of the dynamic driver (ring radiator or compression drivers), increased the driver size, actually investigated the HRTF effect of headphones and how to exploit that fact, used revolutionary materials and construction, the QC and QA that went into them. They are impressive from conception to the final product.

And then copy a popular mod discussed on various internet forums for the "S" version because...

Which makes me wonder if they hit their target curve given the received wisdom that they are way too trebly (having eq them, I agree).

and not even do that great a job of it.

Still like it better than the Utopia though.

 

[Jimbob54]

I have no idea what they were trying to achieve. Didn't they listen to their own headphones before shipping them?

You'd rather hope so. One thing I noticed about their sound pre eq was how well they locked and separated the different instruments like nothing I've heard before or since. Applying eq loses some of that but gains a far more relaxed listening experience. To my ears anyway

 

[KeithPhantom]

You'd rather hope so. One thing I noticed about their sound pre eq was how well they locked and separated the different instruments like nothing I've heard before or since. Applying eq loses some of that but gains a far more relaxed listening experience. To my ears anyway

Someone in another forum was saying that the 6 kHz peak of the HD 800 was an intermodulation product of the main peak at ~11 kHz. I don't know if that's right, but it looks like an interesting theory.

 

[KeithPhantom]

because...

It's cheaper copy and then say it was your idea. Also, it gives you a pass to "upgrade" your headphones... you know, business.

 

[solderdude]

In all fairness to Sennheiser. They got a lot of comments about the 6kHz peak. A lot of folks were trying to remove it more or less successfully with various methods.
Only after the HD800S came out the resonator idea was tried and copied by others and not the other way around. That DIY mod can be retrofitted it in the HD800 when you have some balls and work carefully.

There are other ways as well to tame the treble peak besides digital PEQ and modifications that do not require modifications or digital PEQ or powered devices.

 

[KeithPhantom]

In all fairness to Sennheiser. They got a lot of comments about the 6kHz peak. A lot of folks were trying to remove it more or less successfully with various methods.
Only after the HD800S came out the resonator idea was tried and copied by others and not the other way around. That DIY mod can be retrofitted it in the HD800 when you have some balls and work carefully.

There are other ways as well to tame the treble peak besides digital PEQ and modifications that do not require modifications or digital PEQ or powered devices.

Doesn't the mod increase harmonic distortion though?

 

[idiomatically]

I looked at the DT1990 when I wanted to try some 600 ohm nominal Cans and was looking to upgrade from my HD600’s in the end though after listening to the HD800s they just blew every other Can i demo’d off the table.

So in my home office I use my original JDS Labs Element with the HD600s and at work I use the JDS Labs Element 2 with the HD800s as I use Cans exclusively at work and mainly at home I listen via my speaker setup.

 

[sfdoddsy]

It may have been mentioned, but for me the next step from my HD580 and HD6xx was simply to EQ them.

There are various profiles available online, and Sonarworks has one for the lazy.

When you see how little EQ is required to make the HD580/600 flat you realise what well designed cans they are.