What you need to know about the virus in China "2019 Novel Coronavirus (2019-nCoV)"

[MediumRare]

I can only say this for the Netherlands: we are the second largest food exporter in the world after the USA. See here for 2018 data: https://www.cbs.nl/en-gb/news/2019/03/agricultural-export-value-over-90-bn-euros-in-2018 I would think Denmark is also a major league player, with their meat and dairy exports.
This site (without proper source references) gives slightly different numbers, but here too the Netherlands is in the top league: https://www.worldatlas.com/articles...he-largest-exporter-of-food-in-the-world.html
And this one for Spain: https://ecomercioagrario.com/en/spain-fourth-largest-food-exporting-country-in-the-eu/ So Spain exports a lot, but the Netherlands exports almost twice as much in value.

Not exactly. NL is the 2nd largest exporter of "Agricultural Products". So flowers drives up that total dramatically, not food. But it also include Re-exports. So the actual net food exports is fairly low, as to be expected from NL's relative size. https://humboldt.global/top-agricultural-exporters/

 

[RickSanchez]

Plus that's mountain country... so they likely have to go 50 miles just to get some groceries ...

That's actually a really good point. In various rural counties there are certain necessities (e.g., buying groceries) that may require long trips. So folks who are doing their best to practice social distancing and stay at home may still have to travel a fair distance during the week.

 

[maxxevv]

I came across this tip sheet on CNN yesterday that freaked me out a bit:

https://www.cnn.com/interactive/202...sheets/coronavirus-proof-your-home/index.html

It's talking about setting up a disinfecting station outside home and disinfecting packaged food.

Anybody got pointers on how to do that? Specially when I cant find any disinfectant to purchase?

We've been ordering groceries and delivery online. It would really suck to get infected from delivered food and packages while following all shelter guidelines.

Interesting. Maybe can consider UV lamps.
Blast them a good 10-15mins before handling them.

Like Gene from Audioholics, I hit the COVID-19 jackpot. Had a slightly worse time than most my age because I got it with a secondary bacterial infection - meant I had to be warded in an isolation room due to my immunocompromised status. Doctors couldn't risk further infection. Had a high-ish fever (peaked at just below 40C) for much longer than I have had in over a decade, slight pneumonia, diarrhoea, slight aches and dry cough. It could have gotten very ugly with the secondary infection but I rebounded quickly thankfully, and my symptoms were very tolerable.

My doctors gave me antibiotics to kick the secondary infection out of the picture for my immune system to focus on the coronavirus, then it was symptomatic relief with cough syrup, expectorants and paracetemol. Pretty much 100% now, just a sore sternum from the coughing and some phlegm.

Good to hear that you are almost in the clear.

Just be careful with hygiene when they release you out back into the open again. The chinese studies suggest that recovered patients still carry remnants of the virus in their fecal matter for up to 4 weeks.

 

[BDWoody]

How do you interpret the data in Japan, Taiwan, Singapore and HK?

https://academic.oup.com/ije/advance-article/doi/10.1093/ije/dyaa044/5813980

Possibly that there's not enough of it...

 

[BDWoody]

so they likely have to go 50 miles just to get some groceries - and there's only ~5K of them in the entire county...

That could just be the other side of the property..

 

[maty]

Corona19TrackerES - Seguimiento de la evolución de la crisis sanitaria del COVID_19 en España
https://datastudio.google.com/reporting/211b8899-39a5-48be-aa23-f4eccd1041b1/page/D1TKB

View attachment 56708

Note in the columns below that for those > 80 years old ... NO ICU DATA ("Requieren UCI")

Salut [Generalitat de Catalunya] recomienda no poner respirador a los pacientes de más de 80 años
[Spanish] https://www.lavanguardia.com/vida/2...o-poner-respirador-pacientes-mas-80-anos.html

Salut [Generalitat de Catalunya] recommends not putting a respirator on patients over 80 years old
https://translate.google.es/translate?sl=es&tl=en&u=https://www.lavanguardia.com/vida/20200402/48266668820/salut-recomienda-no-poner-respirador-pacientes-mas-80-anos.html

[ The saturation of hospitals, and even more so of ICUs, together with the fact that there are elderly people in their homes and in nursing homes, centers that are not part of the health network, complicates care in this age group, the most vulnerable to Covid-19 because many of these people have other pathologies that can aggravate the infection. The guidelines for caring for these patients cause confusion and ethical debate. As a document from the Emergency Services (SEM) of the Departament de Salut, which recommends not intubating (putting on a respirator or invasive mechanical ventilation) to those over 80 years of age or not transferring patients who are in their home or residences to the hospital if “futility of therapeutic measures” is observed, that is, that no treatment will benefit them anymore... ]

[ One suspicious aspect is that staff are advised how to speak accurately with families when limiting therapeutic effort; recommends that it be understood that it is about avoiding suffering to the patient; that not intubating, for example, does not mean abandoning it, ceasing to treat it; that it is not decided "who lives and who dies", but who can benefit the most from the aggressive treatments and therefore it is not necessary to say "there are no beds for everyone"; that if you stay at home you have to ensure your comfort and that you listen to the patient and the family... ]


In the previous graph, there are no patients older than 80 years in ICUs throughout Spain.

Note in the columns below that for those > 80 years old ... NO ICU DATA ("Requieren UCI")

 

[Laserjock]

Interesting. Maybe can consider UV lamps.
Blast them a good 10-15mins before handling them.

That’s what I’ve been doing.

 

[ElNino]

I can't find that on their page

It's here: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp2006372

It's NOT a statement or recommendation by the NEJM editorial board; it's just a "perspectives" paper by five authors, one of whom is not even a doctor but an MBA.

 

[Ilkless]

Glad to know you're recovering well! That definitely doesn't sound good at all, but I'm sure you have fantastic medical facilities there (much better than we've got I'd imagine).

Thanks. It seems from the typical incubation time, when my symptoms appeared, and my movement patterns, I very likely got it at Heathrow. Place was a massive choke point when I was there. A couple of doctor friends think that the mass exodus from everywhere back to everywhere due to border shutdowns is a dumb compromise. Borders should have been shut down totally, including for foreign nationals to return - preventing complex international transmission patterns/imported cases that are much harder to trace. Or to keep borders relatively open to reduce the bottleneck.

 

[maxxevv]

Thanks. It seems from the typical incubation time, when my symptoms appeared, and my movement patterns, I very likely got it at Heathrow. Place was a massive choke point when I was there. A couple of doctor friends think that the mass exodus from everywhere back to everywhere due to border shutdowns is a dumb compromise. Borders should have been shut down totally, including for foreign nationals to return - preventing complex international transmission patterns/imported cases that are much harder to trace. Or to keep borders relatively open to reduce the bottleneck.

That's what my medical field friends say too.

If you want to lock, lock everything. The mass migrant worker exodus within India will be a great human tragedy in the coming weeks unfortunately.

 

[FrantzM]

Hi

I am trying to say level. Trying to stay calm but


For many it is still germs cause diseases and that is it. Kill all germs and ... no more diseases .. If you could do that then .. there won't be any humans too.

To put into context, bats are like pufferfish to the Japanese, Gejang to Korean, except bats are at more extreme end to certain extent. You may call Pufferfish and Gejang cuisine somewhat national, bats are definitely not. They are more local, and more exotic, more extreme. It is not common in any way.

Just my 2c, that's how I understand, I could be wrong, who knows

Context is important.

This pandemic, this calamity had me try to understand seriously what a virus is and I found out that I knew little about viruses...

They are not microbes and have no metabolism thus are not alive, . They do one thing: Insert themselves in a cell and make it replicate them .. that is all. They don't "consume" or "transform" anything. They just do one thing.. Multiply and they can't do it alone.
They are in all living things from plant to animals , in bacteria too. They jump from one species to the other with a few mutations and since they are essentially a bag with genes they are very, very difficult to destroy.

So for now there are a suspicion COVID-19 may come from bats .. They carry the disease .. War to the bats! Let's destroy all bats! Those who eat bats are careless ... those who sell bats even more.. Meanwhile we take beefs , have them eat corn, something they don't do in nature , put them in lots where they grow to maturity in less than 6 months , eat them, nicely cut in our supermarket where we suppose they can't carry any viruses .. because ... because!!! ??? ... Why do we think that those cannot carry viruses? Remember these things mutate, IOW they become more adapted and they have done this since the beginning of times .. BEfore us, before the microbes, before life on earth ... How do we know they are ot on the nice poultry and beef of our supermarkets.... On those dead animals too? THe dead flesh is made of cells that are mostly alive ... virus-country!

Yes take the precautions but please, oh please! Stop blaming a culture!. That we are alive is because of our sharing microbes and viruses with animals and other humans ....

 

[MediumRare]

https://academic.oup.com/ije/advance-article/doi/10.1093/ije/dyaa044/5813980

Possibly that there's not enough of it...

Good article, thanks for sharing. Seems to generally support the idea that more use of masks may be of benefit - but not enough data to be conclusive. Back when they were $0.40 each, seems like a no-brainer. Imagine the cost of that v $2 trillion+++++++.

 

[Thomas savage]

Good article, thanks for sharing. Seems to generally support the idea that more use of masks may be of benefit - but not enough data to be conclusive. Back when they were $0.40 each, seems like a no-brainer. Imagine the cost of that v $2 trillion+++++++.

Iv got 20 in my van from when I used to have a drywall business .

 

[MediumRare]

This pandemic, this calamity had me try to understand seriously what a virus is and I found out that I knew little about viruses...

They are not microbes and have no metabolism thus are not alive, . They do one thing: Insert themselves in a cell and make it replicate them .. that is all. They don't "consume" or "transform" anything. They just do one thing.. Multiply and they can't do it alone.

I agree with your post, just need to make one clarification. Viruses do more than multiply. Even though SARS-CoV-2 has only 18 genes, it appears to affect the production of over 400 proteins in human tissue. So the disease is more than a viral overload, a lot of bad things are happening at the same time. Thought that would be useful to know.

 

[MediumRare]

Appears to use equipment commonly available in hospitals to sterilize them in bulk. Could virtually solve the supply problem through re-use.
https://www.nepr.net/post/yale-rese...d-recycle-thousands-respirator-masks#stream/0

 

[raistlin65]

I don’t care what you eat but being as these viruses seem to originate from bats and jump to another host before humans, I’d say it makes sense not to have any around each other.

Wonder if this is how the vampire myth arose? An ancient culture that noticed a clear correlation between bats and disease.

 

[FrantzM]

I agree with your post, just need to make one clarification. Viruses do more than multiply. Even though SARS-CoV-2 has only 18 genes, it appears to affect the production of over 400 proteins in human tissue. So the disease is more than a viral overload, a lot of bad things are happening at the same time. Thought that would be useful to know.

Thanks!

 

[maxxevv]

Good article, thanks for sharing. Seems to generally support the idea that more use of masks may be of benefit - but not enough data to be conclusive. Back when they were $0.40 each, seems like a no-brainer. Imagine the cost of that v $2 trillion+++++++.

$0.40 ? You mean N95 masks ?

The disposal 3-ply surgical masks typically cost like US$0.07 each before this whole crisis. They are now like US$0.60+ for most places online that have them in stock .

 

[MediumRare]

Wonder if this is how the vampire myth arose? An ancient culture that noticed a clear correlation between bats and disease.

Please see earlier post: Bats are everywhere. They are just another mammal. We have far more deaths from many other animal-transmitted diseases. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoonosis

 

[RayDunzl]

I hope these little guys don't turn against us...

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4275845/


T4 bacteriophage as seen through an electron microscope