What set of measurements can equate two DACs?

[preload]

Another way to approach this might be to take a look at and consider data we already have.
1) We already know that several DACs, when tested under blinded, controlled conditions, were indistinguishable.
2) We have additional DAC comparisons that were played back and ADC re-encoded and compared blindly using ABX comparator, and were indistinguishable.
3) And we have data for recordings played through ADC/DAC combinations through multiple generations, and they were still indistinguishable from the original.

So, it should be just a matter of looking at the measurements for those DACS that are within our experience base to get an idea of what is required to be indistinguishable.

Or we can keep reinventing the wheel by throwing semi-arbitrary threshold values around.

 

[spacevector]

So, it should be just a matter of looking at the measurements for those DACS that are within our experience base to get an idea of what is required to be indistinguishable.

Have you done this already or are you working on it?

 

[preload]

Have you done this already or are you working on it?

Me no. I'm not interested enough personally - because there are already substantial and easily verifiable (in the case of publicly available ABX comparator files) data to comfortably conclude that modern DACs are more or less indistinguishable audibly.

I mean a file passed through a $10 Apple "dongle" DAC and redigitized through a cheesy Behringer ADC is indistinguishable from the original. How much more evidence do people need? So this is why I've started to focus on more important things, like chassis-mounted RCA jacks.

 

[bobbooo]

What's repeatedly overlooked is that the distortion of the transducers at the end of the audio reproduction chain will be far higher than that of the vast majority of DACs/amps. So even if you had the $60,000 Sennheiser HE1, the lowest distorting headphones in the world at 0.01% THD (-80dB), the combined distortion with say an average modern smartphone or dongle having THD at -96dB would be (worst case, in phase) -79.9dB i.e. an inaudible 0.1dB additional distortion. The DAC/amp SINAD required for audible transparency with a typical headphone with (much) higher distortion would obviously be even lower, and even lower still for a typical loudspeaker. When it comes to audio reproduction, you're only as strong as your weakest link.

 

[musicapristina]

Send @amirm one of your devices for testing.

The Virtuoso PCM DAC has sunset, the last one lives in my rack, no reason to test it. I've been talking to Amir about testing the A Cappella III.

 

[mansr]

more important things, like chassis-mounted RCA jacks

What an odd thing to obsess over.

 

[KSTR]

From an EMC perpective, chassis-mounted connectors have merits -- when properly done, of course (non-isolated, above all). Many things must fall in place to qualify as properly done here.

 

[KSTR]

The Virtuoso PCM DAC has sunset, the last one lives in my rack, no reason to test it. I've been talking to Amir about testing the A Cappella III.

Not much to test here, I'd say. The streamer is just a digital bridge, no analog outputs. One might test jitter performance on the AES3/SPDIF digital outs. I²S jitter would require an adapter to BNC (clock line) in order to be tested with the AP.

 

[preload]

What an odd thing to obsess over.

As opposed to obsessing over minute differences in SINAD, jitter, multitone distortion, etc that are all equivalent to chassis mount rca jacks in predicting how alike modern DACs will sound? Because I think that's odd.

 

[preload]

From an EMC perpective, chassis-mounted connectors have merits -- when properly done, of course (non-isolated, above all). Many things must fall in place to qualify as properly done here.

Plus they feel solid when inserting and removing rca plugs. Perhaps Amir can measure insertion/extraction force so we can have a better sense of rca jack feel.

 

[musicapristina]

I²S jitter would require an adapter to BNC

I have easily accessible header pins with the I²S signals available as LVDS inside the chassis.

However, Amir told me that he has "a 'crappy' DAC that doesn't do a good job of filtering jitter so I can measure with that as well as a state-of-the-art DAC."