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What even induces Amir and the moderators to keep going?

S

suttondesign

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I get exhausted and saddened by how posts escalate to heated or snarky rhetoric, so I marvel that Amir and other volunteers keep going with this forum. What started as a fun place with a curious, gracious host and enthusiasts who like to share experiences is not much fun anymore. I envisioned a place where bespectacled pipe-smokers in velvet-quilted smoking jackets sit in comfy chairs, perusing the latest pop sci, hi-fi world, and gauzy soft-porn with "serious articles," but those days are gone, I suppose. I myself have gotten tart responses to my innocent, naive, or dumb questions, even from long-time forum members. But then, I am a rare and delicate flower (a phrase best uttered with a Parisian accent), so maybe that's just me.

Anyhoo, I wouldn't blame the host and moderators from calling it mission accomplished and bowing out. All things run their course. And nothing good ever lasts. Besides which, it must get pretty tedious to keep doing these measurements on what must be a huge pile of electronic sameness in Amir's living room or garage.

Please, don't flame me!
 
You raise some valid points and while I can not speak for Amir or Brad. Unless a major life altering event should happen. I am in as long as Amir and Brad will have me. When I joined the team I already knew it was one of those types of Family’s you Never really Leave. :oops:
 
suttondesign said:
I get exhausted and saddened by how posts escalate to heated or snarky rhetoric,
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1) No matter where you are or what you're doing, you'll always encounter halfwits. They're part of the human race.

2) Our host and the mods deserve to know, from time to time, that we appreciate their efforts. That makes any job easier.

3) So in that vein ...THANK YOU, ONE AND ALL! ;)

Jim
 
I’ve not noticed any comments in this forum that I would not expect to hear in real life/down the pub etc, overall it’s pretty tame.
 
I agree that people should be nicer to the noobs and that's something even Amir has stated for the crowd here. However, I think compared to other parts of the internet it's pretty civil and the quality of information tends to be high, so at least something is working. And from that point of view, it is worth effort to maintain this environment.

I mean, we have here a web forum full of mostly old guys that manages to stay mostly on topic, has substantive discussions, and only has occasional minor difficulty with politics creeping in. In today's world that's a genuine achievement, as rare as a completely original blockbuster movie. Go over to Reddit or Facebook or something, let alone the other audio-focused forums, and it's immediately clear what the mods are achieving here.
 
Perhaps some of the perceived issues come from the interpretation of a geographical vernacular perspective as we have members from all over the globe or disc for the flat earthers amongst us, how I talk and express myself in comments may appear to be abrupt and to the point (I’m Scottish ;)), intonation of speech and facial expressions cannot be considered.
 
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I've been reading you for a while, but I started writing a few weeks ago.
I'm new around here.

I'm not surprised by what you say.

I don't use social media, yes, I'm a rare beast. I used them in his time, and abandoned them. I am not attracted by other people's affairs,
I much prefer content to gossip. I prefer to read newspapers every day and I am equally in step with the times.
A thing I don't like about social media; the very tribal concept that moves and fuels them. They are not a place of culture, science, ideals.
They have become a sort of modern Colosseum, the bazaar of all-rounders of nothingness. the place that ancient dignitaries used to "guide" the tastes of the people and to vent the most brutal instincts of society in the most classic "all against one". basically the popular court with shouts and "thumbs down"...

So far from a site like this, which deals with audiophile-themed scientific dissemination explained to be within everyone's reach.

Then even in here, some users will be moved by unconstructive feelings, not all people have education, sensitivity, or valid arguments. They will pour out their pride starting from the assumption that they are not looking for a healthy comparison, useful for all users to grow and improve their experience, but rather they are trying to overwhelm others.
Just ignore, and put out the fire, move on.
The important thing is knowing how to choose your interlocutors.

The idea I have of ASR is distant from the "social" one; and I think that users should not behave here like in any social network

if you decide to write and communicate here, it is because you have an idea that unites you with other users, a passion for a topic. Audio!!!!
The confrontation can also become heated, it is in the games, but always with a very specific route: the most constructive exchange of ideas...

until this happens, this place will have reason to exist.
 
You always get a handful of dominators on any forum you visit, especially audio oriented ones. I've been jumped here, and other forums for no good reason that I see, and can see why users just want to walk away. Sometimes it would be more fun to have your toenails pulled out one by one.
 
My guess: Dedication, learning experiences, good interaction with a number of members, serving a very worthwhile cause, and a bit of insanity.

Not necessarily in that order.
 
suttondesign said:
I get exhausted and saddened by how posts escalate to heated or snarky rhetoric, so I marvel that Amir and other volunteers keep going with this forum. What started as a fun place with a curious, gracious host and enthusiasts who like to share experiences is not much fun anymore. I envisioned a place where bespectacled pipe-smokers in velvet-quilted smoking jackets sit in comfy chairs, perusing the latest pop sci, hi-fi world, and gauzy soft-porn with "serious articles," but those days are gone, I suppose. I myself have gotten tart responses to my innocent, naive, or dumb questions, even from long-time forum members. But then, I am a rare and delicate flower (a phrase best uttered with a Parisian accent), so maybe that's just me.

Anyhoo, I wouldn't blame the host and moderators from calling it mission accomplished and bowing out. All things run their course. And nothing good ever lasts. Besides which, it must get pretty tedious to keep doing these measurements on what must be a huge pile of electronic sameness in Amir's living room or garage.

Please, don't flame me!
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I agree with @AdamG that this is a reasonable post with some good points, for sure.

By way of perspective, I would make a few observations:

1. As some others have said, most folks here are quite civil, respectful, and patient in what they write and (most of the time) how they write it - especially compared to most of the rest of the internet, including some other audio forums and sites I can think of.

2. Folks are sometimes terse or ungenerous in their replies. I think some of that is the engineering culture that's a big part of this forum, and some is (as noted earlier) the fact that this is one of the more truly global forums out there and English is not everyone's first language here.

3. All that said, Yes - I think a good number of members here have gotten a bit less patient with certain questions or arguments that are often made by newer members. That's unfortunate but I think it's an inevitable aspect of any community (online or in-person) as time goes on. For each new member, it's the first time they're asking that question or making that argument here. But for the longer-term member it's the 5th, or 10th, or 20th time they are being asked to respond to that question or argument. I think it's just impossible for people to be exactly as friendly, generous, and patient the 20th time as they were the 2nd or 3rd time. So it's really just about the fact that as this forum gets longer-lived, there's an increasing disparity in the experiences and perspectives of the "noobs" and the "old heads."

4. Finally, sort of on the flip side of that, there's apparently been an increase in the rate of new members joining in the last 1-3 years as this site's notoriety and influence have increased. That means older members are seeing the same questions and arguments more and more often - and some fraction of new members are subjectivist-oriented audiophiles who seem to join just in order to have a go at arguing with the "objectivists." They're a small minority from what I can tell, but it only takes a few to make older members a little more suspicious of any new member who seems like they might possibly just be here to troll or fight.

So those are the factors that I think might be playing into what you are observing and experiencing.

Personally I love this place and enjoy the give-and-take, the camaraderie, and the increasing shared history and collective memory we all have as this forum ages and goes on.

So I say enjoy it while we can. I mean, someday @Pearljam5000 is actually going to buy a pair of speakers, and then what will we all do? :)
 
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tmtomh said:
I agree with @AdamG that this is a reasonable post with some good points, for sure.

By way of perspective, I would make a few observations:

1. As some others have said, most folks here are quite civil, respectful, and patient in what they write and (most of the time) how they write it - especially compared to most of the rest of the internet, including some other audio forums and sites I can think of.

2. Folks are sometimes terse or ungenerous in their replies. I think some of that is the engineering culture that's a big part of this forum, and some is (as noted earlier) the fact that this is one of the more truly global forums out there and English is not everyone's first language here.

3. All that said, Yes - I think a good number of members here have gotten a bit less patient with certain questions or arguments that are often made by newer members. That's unfortunate but I think it's an inevitable aspect of any community (online or in-person) as time goes on. For each new member, it's the first time they're asking that question or making that argument here. But for the longer-term member it's the 5th, or 10th, or 20th time they are being asked to respond to that question or argument. I think it's just impossible for people to be exactly as friendly, generous, and patient the 20th time as they were the 2nd or 3rd time. So it's really just about the fact that as this forum gets longer-lived, there's an increasing disparity in the experiences and perspectives of the "noobs" and the "old heads."

4. Finally, sort of on the flip side of that, there's apparently been an increase in the rate of new members joining in the last 1-3 years as this site's notoriety and influence have increased. That means older members are seeing the same questions and arguments more and more often and more and more frequently - and some fraction of new members are subjectivist-oriented audiophiles who seem to join just in order to have a go at arguing with the "objectivists." They're a small minority from what I can tell, but it only takes a few to make older members a little more suspicious of any new member who looks like could possibly just be here to troll or fight.

So those are the factors that I think might be playing into what you are observing and experiencing.

Personally I love this place and enjoy the give-and-take, the camaraderie, and the increasing shared history and collective memory we all have as this forum ages and goes on.

So I say enjoy it while we can. I mean, someday @Pearljam5000 is actually going to buy a pair of speakers, and then what will we all do? :)
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In 20 years I'll be probably able to afford the 8381
So you have a lot of time to enjoy my posts;)
 
I don't know, the OP is acting like ASR is past its prime. I think it is making a real dent in the industry - more measurements, BS less comfortable. People come at ASR faster because it is over the target. ASR's prime is ahead of it.
 
kemmler3D said:
I agree that people should be nicer to the noobs and that's something even Amir has stated for the crowd here. However, I think compared to other parts of the internet it's pretty civil and the quality of information tends to be high, so at least something is working. And from that point of view, it is worth effort to maintain this environment.

I mean, we have here a web forum full of mostly old guys that manages to stay mostly on topic, has substantive discussions, and only has occasional minor difficulty with politics creeping in. In today's world that's a genuine achievement, as rare as a completely original blockbuster movie. Go over to Reddit or Facebook or something, let alone the other audio-focused forums, and it's immediately clear what the mods are achieving here.
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Agreed that I'm not in other parts of the web except the Linkwitz Lab forum, which has about 10 visitors per day. So I'm not inured to the slings and arrows.
 
DonH56 said:
...and a bit of insanity
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I have a few turntables and play records too, so that all lines up as we dance to the masochism tango here periodically. (Any other Tom Lehrer fans out there?)

Many focus on the heat that often accompanies some new members, rather than the continued growth and overwhelmingly helpful and positive membership.

We have many more new members happy to have found us than we have trying to tell us how wrong we all are, it just doesn't always seem that way because noise and distortion always stands out.

I was lucky enough to join before the growth really took off, so it may be easier having gotten to know many of our core members in a room of 5,000 rather than the 50,000 it is now (!), but for those who make the effort to settle in as a 'regular,' there are a lot of very sharp, funny people who also happen to be able to get to the bottom of pretty much anything.
 
Did you know the 8th anniversary of this forum's debut is coming up? Not sure which day Amir counts as day one, but it was in February. I think it opened on the 22nd.

Thanks to Amir and the mods past and present for making this a top audio forum.

Yes, sometimes hard to be patient and answer quite as nicely after being here for years. I think most people try to remember that.
 
BDWoody said:
I have a few turntables and play records too, so that all lines up as we dance to the masochism tango here periodically. (Any other Tom Lehrer fans out there?)
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I’ve given up on records a long time ago, but I’ve been attracting pigeons to my backyard lately :oops:
 
This:

"To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women." - Conan the Barbarian

There was a time when Amir would post in discussions on other forums and users would argue endlessly with him on various topics. Always remaining cordial but firm in his arguments, this inevitably led to Amir being banned from those forums because he was "mean" to those responding or some such nonsense. So what did he do? He did a Bender and made his own theme park.

Now we all get to play and have fun. Here we have access to many audio luminaries and experts on various aspects of our hobby while engaging in lively and provocative—yet friendly—discussions. What more could you want from a motivation standpoint?

ASR gets more eyeballs as its reputation as a no nonsense source of information grows. This benefits all of us as more vendors and experts participate. While this growth is good for all of us, there is always a certain forum-related SINAD level that will be present that has to be accepted—as it is inevitable with any open discussion forum.
 
A bit of background on ASR :) Long timers can correct me if I am wrong. A long time ago, Audiogon imploded. They were bought over and the new owners were greedy. Many left Audiogon in droves and went to WBF. I believe that Amir was co-founder of WBF. I was a member of that forum, and all was well for a while. Then more and more fights started happening, people were banned, and then suddenly there was a mass exodus. When I saw the exodus happening I sent a concerned PM to the other owner. He told me that it is better for them in the long run to have two forums, both for like-minded individuals. If you look at my join date, it wasn't long after ASR was established ;) Good to be here from the very beginning.

WBF is now a shadow of its former self. In the meanwhile, ASR is going from strength to strength and I believe is influencing the industry to change its ways. In the past, it was difficult to find REAL reviews of equipment. From what I can see, buyers are more educated these days. It is easy to see that the Emperor has no clothes, and that is pushing manufacturers to adapt to the market.

Oh yes, I first heard of Amir even before WBF. Amir wrote an Android app for a BBQ Controller called Rocks BBQ. It was a PID controlled fan. Place one thermometer in the BBQ, and another 2-3 in the meat. Use the app to set your desired temperature and cooking time. The Controller regulated the airflow into my Kamado and it did a pretty good job! I found Amir on WBF and PM'ed him asking for some features to be added to the app. He thanked me but never did add those features ;) I wonder if he remembers.
 
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