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What even induces Amir and the moderators to keep going?

I am in my boxers with no shirt wearing my military style birth control glasses, I must be in the wrong place. I roll my own cigs but don't smoke in the house.

Any recommendations on how to improve my audiophile appearance?

Anyway, I love this forum compared to the experience I had over at AVSForum after a flame war about how to not burn your house down and then about the bullsh!t power ratings people were claiming.

I guess I spoke too soon, this forum is a censoring at the request of some whiny biotch forum as well.
 
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AdamG said:
This is a general work in progress. Baby steps are secretly celebrated. Some of the ASR Branded Originals (ASR-BOG’s) are providing relatively calm and collected answers and responses to the same questions nearing a quantum level. It’s hard to find any blame engaging in the same ole churn. We are studiously grateful that they continue to endeavor in illuminating the Science in a grind it out “Groundhogs Day” reduplication. We suspect a few of the BOG’s have ascended this mortal realm. :oops:
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Agree completely. Overall, on ASR we evolve and improve for the most part. And doing so is most commendable while we witness much of the rest of the world, its peoples, and its forums devolve. The great modern devo (other than in audio equipment!).

I would never wish to break your momma's back or perpetrate a "whip it" attitude for virtually any type of post. Tolerance.

 
Count Arthur said:
It's for the money, surely.

Is everyone else is paying their $100.00 a month subscription?
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That's only due if Amir passes the threshold of 1,800 hours per year working on ASR, after which they become billable hours.

Was mother Teressa less magnanimous?
 
kemmler3D said:
I'll take this opportunity to trot out my durable belief that a prominently featured FAQ would save everyone a lot of time with the basic / repetitive questions. I mean, that's the F in FAQ, no? :)
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We have dozens of them. Heck you can’t swing a sheep without hitting one. But if you’re feeling frisky don’t let a swinging Sheep slow your roll. Any member,,,,ah hem, most members,,,,,can start a FAQ Thread effort. Pro Tip: Tell me to kick rocks. We need volunteers for some of these great ideas. My former employer had a long held and honored rule about that. If you bring up the idea/suggestion you were immediately assigned to the lead role for the new collateral duty. I will be happy to help you with any Forum functions and administrative tasks that I hold privileges. :cool:
 
dtaylo1066 said:
That's only due if Amir passes the threshold of 1,800 hours per year working on ASR, after which they become billable hours.

Was mother Teressa less magnanimous?
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I can guarantee you that all three of us pass that number by end of June. Pretty much 7 days a week. On the plus side we’re all getting Double Overtime for the last six months of the year. I spend it all at Hard Rock Labor Casino. ;)
 
AdamG said:
We have dozens of them. Heck you can’t swing a sheep without hitting one. But if you’re feeling frisky don’t let a swinging Sheep slow your roll. Any member,,,,ah hem, most members,,,,,can start a FAQ Thread effort. Pro Tip: Tell me to kick rocks. We need volunteers for some of these great ideas. My former employer had a long held and honored rule about that. If you bring up the idea/suggestion you were immediately assigned to the lead role for the new collateral duty. I will be happy to help you with any Forum functions and administrative tasks that I hold privileges. :cool:
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I think there are 2 major steps here... 1) Agree on the FAQ content and write it. Writing it should be a reasonable lift with help from membership, full agreement may be impossible but we'll try. 2) Place the FAQ in the path of new members so they can't avoid reading before starting the nth iteration of the "I heard a difference between these DACs" thread.
 
AdamG said:
I can guarantee you that all three of us pass that number by end of June. Pretty much 7 days a week. On the plus side we’re all getting Double Overtime for the last six months of the year. I spend it all at Hard Rock Labor Casino. ;)
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No doubt. You may need more recruits! I pulled 1,800 hours out of my lower sphincter as I think those are the expected billable hours of low ranking associate lawyers in a firm who have to work their ass off to hit or exceed that mark and either advance or be whack-a-moled.
 
suttondesign said:
I get exhausted and saddened by how posts escalate to heated or snarky rhetoric, so I marvel that Amir and other volunteers keep going with this forum. What started as a fun place with a curious, gracious host and enthusiasts who like to share experiences is not much fun anymore. I envisioned a place where bespectacled pipe-smokers in velvet-quilted smoking jackets sit in comfy chairs, perusing the latest pop sci, hi-fi world, and gauzy soft-porn with "serious articles," but those days are gone, I suppose. I myself have gotten tart responses to my innocent, naive, or dumb questions, even from long-time forum members. But then, I am a rare and delicate flower (a phrase best uttered with a Parisian accent), so maybe that's just me.
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Yeah... there's already been a few threads pleading for people to adopt a more diplomatic tone.

I think the biggest problem is that other forums often take most of their information directly from marketing and create an environment designed to perpetuate interest. People are largely just being told what they'd like to hear, and conflicts never really amount to anything other than differing opinions. It can get heated, but nobody's really right or wrong. It's a very safe place to be.

I get the feeling that ASR has a much larger portion of user coming from a background of industry and/or academia. Those places are far more cutthroat, and things are rarely being sugarcoated (that's the job of the marketing department). The hardcore ASR clientele also seem be fed up by the cozy delusion that drives most of the hobby, and the resentment probably makes us throw the truth a bit harder in the face of newcomers than it needs to be.

It's very difficulty to keep both integrity and truth intact, while also making sure that people don't take things personally.
 
Killingbeans said:
It's very difficulty to keep both integrity and truth intact, while also making sure that people don't take things personally.
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Indeed. I mean, I try, but it's hard enough to come up with the same reply for the Nth time, let alone take the extra effort to let OP down easy. But, in these cases, you really do catch more flies with honey than vinegar.
 
kemmler3D said:
I think there are 2 major steps here... 1) Agree on the FAQ content and write it. Writing it should be a reasonable lift with help from membership, full agreement may be impossible but we'll try. 2) Place the FAQ in the path of new members so they can't avoid reading before starting the nth iteration of the "I heard a difference between these DACs" thread.
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More powerful than a FAQ is a TOS (Terms of Service). Actual rules to post by.

For example, these (with updates) have served Hydrogenaudio well since 2002. See especially TOS#8, which made Hydrogenaudio a pioneer in audio science websites:

TOS Hydrogenaudio Terms of Service / Notices

TOS 1. All messages express the views of the author, and are not and should not be taken as representative of the official policies of the forum or the views of its staff, unless explicitly stated as such by the authoritative members of the staff.

TOS 2. All members, at the staff's discretion, must converse in an acceptable fashion to be allowed the privilege of continued participation. The use of generative AI such as ChatGPT is strictly limited.

TOS 3. All members must acknowledge and accept that data integrity is not the liability of the Hydrogenaudio staff. Those who do not accept this should not contribute any content whatsoever to the Hydrogenaudio community.

TOS 4. The Hydrogenaudio community requires that all members provide a valid email address. This email address will only be used for user account validation and activities directly related to the features of this community, and will never be given to any third party.

TOS 5. All members that post to the Hydrogenaudio community must acknowledge and discuss only acceptable topics when starting a new thread. If posting to an already existing thread, they must continue in the vein of discussion that the thread has already manifested; if they wish to change topics, they must start a new thread.

TOS 6. All members that create new threads must use a topic title which is understandable and describes the content of the thread properly. Furthermore, all new threads must be started in the correct forum categories, and posted only once - in the appropriate category - throughout the entire forum. Double posts will be removed, and threads with inappropriate topics will be moved. A member that repeatedly violates this rule may be subject to administrative action.

TOS 7. All members must acknowledge the authority of the staff insofar as administrative actions are concerned. These issues are no longer open for discussion once the staff member has indicated that the matter is closed. Further concerns regarding an action should be communicated via a private message to the staff member, and not repeatedly discussed publicly. Furthermore, once a thread on a particular topic has been closed or removed and indicated as being unacceptable by a staff member, starting a new discussion on the exact same topic will result in administrative action being taken against the poster.

TOS 8. All members that put forth a statement concerning subjective sound quality, must - to the best of their ability - provide objective support for their claims. Acceptable means of support are double blind listening tests (ABX or ABC/HR) demonstrating that the member can discern a difference perceptually, together with a test sample to allow others to reproduce their findings. Graphs, non-blind listening tests, waveform difference comparisons, and so on, are not acceptable means of providing support.

TOS 9. All members must refrain from posting links to - or information regarding how to obtain - material that is copyrighted and being distributed without authorization or is otherwise illegal. Discussion containing information of how to obtain such material, how to bypass protection methodologies of such material, or how to otherwise violate laws pertaining to such matters will not be tolerated.

TOS 10. All members must post in English. Content in other languages are allowed as long as full English translations are provided, or otherwise at the discretion of the staff. User profile information (including sigs) in other languages is allowed.

TOS 11. All member signatures must be kept brief (3 to 4 lines at most). Signatures and avatars must also be non-obtrusive, non-offensive and work-safe.

TOS 12. All members are only allowed to have a single user account with the forums. Members who are found to violate this rule may be subject to immediate banishment or other administrative action.

TOS 13. Updates posted in the "News Submissions" forum should be of importance for the community.

TOS 14. All members must refrain from using the forum solely for advertising purposes. Spam posts of any kind may lead to an immediate ban.
 
krabapple said:
More powerful than a FAQ is a TOS (Terms of Service). Actual rules to post by.

For example, these (with updates) have served Hydrogenaudio well since 2002. See especially TOS#8, which made Hydrogenaudio a pioneer in audio science websites:

TOS Hydrogenaudio Terms of Service / Notices

TOS 1. All messages express the views of the author, and are not and should not be taken as representative of the official policies of the forum or the views of its staff, unless explicitly stated as such by the authoritative members of the staff.

TOS 2. All members, at the staff's discretion, must converse in an acceptable fashion to be allowed the privilege of continued participation. The use of generative AI such as ChatGPT is strictly limited.

TOS 3. All members must acknowledge and accept that data integrity is not the liability of the Hydrogenaudio staff. Those who do not accept this should not contribute any content whatsoever to the Hydrogenaudio community.

TOS 4. The Hydrogenaudio community requires that all members provide a valid email address. This email address will only be used for user account validation and activities directly related to the features of this community, and will never be given to any third party.

TOS 5. All members that post to the Hydrogenaudio community must acknowledge and discuss only acceptable topics when starting a new thread. If posting to an already existing thread, they must continue in the vein of discussion that the thread has already manifested; if they wish to change topics, they must start a new thread.

TOS 6. All members that create new threads must use a topic title which is understandable and describes the content of the thread properly. Furthermore, all new threads must be started in the correct forum categories, and posted only once - in the appropriate category - throughout the entire forum. Double posts will be removed, and threads with inappropriate topics will be moved. A member that repeatedly violates this rule may be subject to administrative action.

TOS 7. All members must acknowledge the authority of the staff insofar as administrative actions are concerned. These issues are no longer open for discussion once the staff member has indicated that the matter is closed. Further concerns regarding an action should be communicated via a private message to the staff member, and not repeatedly discussed publicly. Furthermore, once a thread on a particular topic has been closed or removed and indicated as being unacceptable by a staff member, starting a new discussion on the exact same topic will result in administrative action being taken against the poster.

TOS 8. All members that put forth a statement concerning subjective sound quality, must - to the best of their ability - provide objective support for their claims. Acceptable means of support are double blind listening tests (ABX or ABC/HR) demonstrating that the member can discern a difference perceptually, together with a test sample to allow others to reproduce their findings. Graphs, non-blind listening tests, waveform difference comparisons, and so on, are not acceptable means of providing support.

TOS 9. All members must refrain from posting links to - or information regarding how to obtain - material that is copyrighted and being distributed without authorization or is otherwise illegal. Discussion containing information of how to obtain such material, how to bypass protection methodologies of such material, or how to otherwise violate laws pertaining to such matters will not be tolerated.

TOS 10. All members must post in English. Content in other languages are allowed as long as full English translations are provided, or otherwise at the discretion of the staff. User profile information (including sigs) in other languages is allowed.

TOS 11. All member signatures must be kept brief (3 to 4 lines at most). Signatures and avatars must also be non-obtrusive, non-offensive and work-safe.

TOS 12. All members are only allowed to have a single user account with the forums. Members who are found to violate this rule may be subject to immediate banishment or other administrative action.

TOS 13. Updates posted in the "News Submissions" forum should be of importance for the community.

TOS 14. All members must refrain from using the forum solely for advertising purposes. Spam posts of any kind may lead to an immediate ban.
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I think a rules document (maybe call it a TOS, why not) that goes hand-in-hand with the FAQ would be good. Rule #1 ought to be - read the FAQ before making your first post.
 
Shouldn't opening posts like this one call for data too, to back up the claims made?

How many of these 400 most recently contributed to threads have actually evolved into places with the heated or snarky rhetoric the OP refers to? Which actual escalation was it that broke the camel's back for the OP?

Of course we must always strive for more love and less war, but I also think we cannot improve on things that we do not make concrete.

Finally, I think ASR is making a tremendous difference and is nowhere past its prime. At least for me. So @amirm and mods, please don't call it a day yet!
 
I used to follow a lot of fora, but the endless flamewars became so annoying that i left most. DIYaudio.com and ASR are the only ones i still follow. Idem with FB and so. I still have an active account, but mainly for the messenger and for links with people arround the globe that are interested in the same music as i am. I'm not posting a lot on it anymore or check it daily anymore.

ASR is quiet civilised and friendly i think. There are still some who are not, but it's mostly a place where you can discuss the matters without getting personal attacks and so. And that is largely due to the work of the admins. So i'm gratefull that this place exist.
 
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