What does toe-in mean?

[ryanosaur]

I have always used the term for the direction of the speakers relative to the listener.

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THIS! Thank you.

 

[-Matt-]

I have always used the term for the direction of the speakers relative to the listener.

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The diagram seems consistent with option #3 (relative to speaker axes parallel).

It doesn't seem correct to describe this as relative to the listener.

 

[Chagall]

I would counter that most people don't automatically aim Speakers at the MLP rather they place them along a wall with the beam-axis perpendicular to said wall.

Who is most people?

There is on-axis <EDIT> and relative to on-axis </EDIT> toe-in and toe-out IMO

 

[DonH56]

The diagram seems consistent with option #3 (relative to speaker axes parallel).

It doesn't seem correct to describe this as relative to the listener.

I did not want to use a bunch of words to describe the relative plane of the speakers perpendicular to the listener and all that jazz so I just drew a picture. This is just what I learned decades ago, working in the business, and what everyone I know has used since. Could still be wrong, of course, but I'll stick with it.

 

[Thomas savage]

Now I'm getting the urge to visit Menard's...

Don , At your age any urge is to be celebrated .

 

[MRC01]

I have always used the term for the direction of the speakers relative to the listener.

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This is my understanding of the term. I think of it as "absolute toe" instead of "relative toe".

 

[Ron Texas]

It's a dance move.

 

[fpitas]

You'll get wear on the outside of the tread with too much toe-in.

/Wait...what?

 

[DonH56]

Trinnov recommend cross firing (which I think some would call extreme toe in) in their speaker layout guide. (In the case of a treated room).

This is because it minimises unnecessary sound energy introduced to the room and gives an even frequency response across the largest number of seats. It also helps the centre image position if you are not at mlp.

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Trinnov describes the pros and cons of this very well. It broadens the effective listening area, i.e. a broader "sweet spot", at the cost of comprising the center position slightly. It also requires the right room and speakers for the best results. Another common approach is to toe the speakers out slightly, instead of in (for cross-firing), to spread the center image a bit at the listening position. I've tried both; cross-firing helps with R/L localization for listeners at the sides, whilst toe-out provides a broader but less well-defined center image.

 

[ryanosaur]

There is on-axis. Toe-in and toe-out IMO

I see Speakers generally placed perpendicular to a wall as the starting point. I think outside of Audio-Head circles, you will find this the most common placement for Speakers. Perhaps I'm wrong. *shrugs
But this is the starting point I see most newbs place their Speakers.

 

[goat76]

I think the term from the beginning comes from car racing and how the front tires are setup to optimize for corner taking. No toe-in means that the front tires are pointing straight forward, and with toe-in, it means that the front side of the tires are pointing towards each other which can help in corners.

 

[DonH56]

Don , At your age any urge is to be celebrated .

Boy, I've missed you, Sir Thomas! Let us know if you're ever heading across the pond for a visit. But stay out of @amirm's trailer this time, you hear?

 

[SIY]

Nothing more sad than ' I lost the hifi in the divorce '

Yes there is. "I lost my wine cellar in the divorce." Trust me on this one.

 

[Thomas savage]

Boy, I've missed you, Sir Thomas! Let us know if you're ever heading across the pond for a visit. But stay out of @amirm's trailer this time, you hear?

Doggy electrics , guy can't see red from black never mind pull a weed . , my guess if that merc hasn't catched fire , it was a Mexican who rewired it and not the inventor of the world's best failed personal audio device aka Amirm or Amir to his pals .

BTW thats very sweet , possibly memory is a issue for you now Don, but il take it .

 

[Thomas savage]

You'll get wear on the outside of the tread with too much toe-in.

/Wait...what?

Theres cream for that now...

 

[Thomas savage]

Yes there is. "I lost my wine cellar in the divorce." Trust me on this one.

Its your own fault , you just remember that while you have fantom memories of the wine you can no longer afford and or even find ...

 

[Jimbob54]

, I thought a menard was a duck ..

Kinky bugger. Duck 3 ways.

 

[Chagall]

I see Speakers generally placed perpendicular to a wall as the starting point. I think outside of Audio-Head circles, you will find this the most common placement for Speakers. Perhaps I'm wrong. *shrugs
But this is the starting point I see most newbs place their Speakers.

Of course, don't get me wrong, people do do that. I was joking when saying Who is most people?

But still to me relative to on-axis seems like the way it should be.
So if the speaker is perpendicular to the backplane or wall it is 30° toe out if it's on-axis it is 0° and the more it crossfires in front of the listener position it's toed-in.

This makes sense to me because in the other case relative to the back wall, every angle between No Toe and Toe Out is useless.

 

[Thomas savage]

Kinky bugger. Duck 3 ways.

Get the thread back on track please..,

Oh thank you member @Chagall ...

A ride for old time sake can be one of the best rides , even if she's got your seller @SIY , do a good job she might be inspired to .., share , alas let not ego get in front of a good ..., glass.

 

[SIY]

A ride for old time sake can be one of the best rides

Not this one, trust me on that, too.

Current gf loves the Quads and always wants to hear her latest favorite album on them. That's a rare quality. (They're toed in)