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What does jitter ACTUALLY sound like? (jitter test tracks)

This is the jitter at the output. The one you might see in all the J-Test measurements on this site. This is also the jitter that an AP would measure in the digital domain. This is what DISTORT let's (sic) you apply, see and hear: jitter at the output. This is the only way to correlate what is measured here to what one might hear. Almost nobody has the equipment to measure jitter at the clock. Nearly everyone has the ability to measure jitter at the output of a DAC or an ADC.
I understand, but my point is that the only clock in a sigma-delta converter is the modulator, and I agree that measuring jitter on that clock requires tools most people don't have. So when people talk about "clock jitter," we need to be clear that we are talking about the modulator clock. Too many people think that their jitter problems can be solved by applying an external word clock.
 
I understand, but my point is that the only clock in a sigma-delta converter is the modulator, and I agree that measuring jitter on that clock requires tools most people don't have. So when people talk about "clock jitter," we need to be clear that we are talking about the modulator clock. Too many people think that their jitter problems can be solved by applying an external word clock.

Yeah, external clock to reduce jitter is a seriously bad idea. What I find fascinating is that an external clock is also suggested as a solution to (audible!) jitter in the audiophile ethernet transmission. There's a decent size following of products and manufacturers that sell expensive audiophile ethernet switches... with the ability to feed them with very expensive, external clocks. Go figure!
 
Very nearly all the "issues " with digital audio are attempting to create demands and differentiation for things that have never been broken in the first place.
(albeit, from his point of view, a solved one in his own DACs).
I think you have just backed up what @Blumllien said.
 
I understand, but my point is that the only clock in a sigma-delta converter is the modulator, and I agree that measuring jitter on that clock requires tools most people don't have. So when people talk about "clock jitter," we need to be clear that we are talking about the modulator clock. Too many people think that their jitter problems can be solved by applying an external word clock.
When we are talking about jitter in digital audio we are almost exclusively talking about jitter in the sample rate - or more accurately in the rate samples are converted to audio.

Not the physical clock in the modulator.
 
Yeah, external clock to reduce jitter is a seriously bad idea. What I find fascinating is that an external clock is also suggested as a solution to (audible!) jitter in the audiophile ethernet transmission. There's a decent size following of products and manufacturers that sell expensive audiophile ethernet switches... with the ability to feed them with very expensive, external clocks. Go figure!

What is more incredible is the counterargument which is basically boiled down to "scams becomes less likely when the asking amount goes up".
 
Does jitter exist - not if a manufacturer uses systems to mask it and it's artefacts (as many do) I have many DAC's and my ears and system(s) are living examples of what jitter does to music reproduction.

My ears don't live in an oscilloscope or on A3 frequency printout

In MY real world I am using numerous sources/routes and devices to establish which if any improve the sound stage, the 'blackness' the imaging and depth.

What I am finding as I work my way back to an acceptable standard of reproduction is that jitter exists, it causes the edginess in the upper register, smears the image and makes the bass 'woolly'.

Yes, it will result in some huge pushback but. When I dodge the streaming 'kit' being sold as audio nirvana (it isn't) with its compressed playback (bricking) and designs intended to mask the in your face, boring, tiring and less than believable reproduction it's hard to ignore the cause.

To that end I have sourced multiple routes and my system is geared up to provide optimal signals and reproduction (for me) with instant comparisons of kit, routes etc.

Simple example is one of my test tracks - 1985 Redbook - Polygram copy of Brothers In Arms - DDD - pressed in Berlin. Totally emotive, swaying rising and falling reproduction. Post 2000 streams - bricked. Pushed to eliminate nuances and music (from my opinion) and whilst many like it (who may not be aware of early digital recording.

jitter adds to the post millenium fatigue and glare with many high end manufacturers engineer their signals to mask as the drive is to sell streams and convince you all audio perfection has been reached. They call this Upsampling or Digital Filtering

The Mask:
Many modern DACs use high-tap-count interpolation filters. This can make the sound "smooth," but it often does so by "pre-ringing"—essentially adding a tiny echo before the musical note.

The Result: This is likely what you’re (and I do) hearing as the "smeared image." If the timing of the leading edge of a note is blurred by a filter or jitter, the brain struggles to "place" the instrument in a 3D space.

The woolly bass and glassy highs - They are the classic signature of timing instability.

High-End Edginess:
Jitter manifests as "sidebands" around high frequencies. It’s not a separate noise; it’s a distortion that is mathematically related to the music. This is why it causes "fatigue"—your brain has to work harder to separate the "glare" from the actual violin or cymbal.
Wooly Bass: People often think bass is too slow to be affected by jitter, but bass impact depends on the phase accuracy of the harmonics. If the timing is off, the "slam" becomes a "thud."

Blackness (noise floor v resolution)
A site might measure a -120dB noise floor with a static tone, but they aren't measuring signal-correlated noise.
  • When the music starts, does the noise floor stay down? Or does it "pump" with the music?
  • I use a device called a Monarchy DIP I use it with a high-quality transport AND 2 NAS sources. The Monarchy (still available if you talk to CC Poon) ensures that the "silence between the notes" stays silent. That "blackness" is what allows the depth and imaging I am talking about to emerge and amaze.
 
We are not here for personal observations that don't follow proper protocol to generate reliable data.

That aside, you keep mentioning how the brain works. What expertise do you have in that domain?

As to jitter, it is readily measurable. Have you gathered such data?
 
Simple example is one of my test tracks - 1985 Redbook - Polygram copy of Brothers In Arms - DDD - pressed in Berlin. Totally emotive, swaying rising and falling reproduction. Post 2000 streams - bricked. Pushed to eliminate nuances and music (from my opinion) and whilst many like it (who may not be aware of early digital recording.
All of this is commercial choice by the rights-holder (frequently not the musicians who created it). This artefact has nothing to do with digital or analogue, not is it anything to do with the age of the technology (I worked on digital recording equipment before CD existed and it was easily capable of exceeding my hearing's dynamic range).
 
There’s been a number of these type of posts from new users with very few posts to their name who have joined this year, I think they are ai bots
 
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Why are your only two posts the same spammy nonsense posted in two separate places?

 
My ears don't live in an oscilloscope or on A3 frequency printout

Neither do anyone else's ears.

In MY real world I am using numerous sources/routes and devices to establish which if any improve the sound stage, the 'blackness' the imaging and depth.

In your real world or in anyone else's real world, there is rigorous protocol to ascertain whether subjective perceptions are real or not. This is a video introduction to those protocols, and probably the one to which Amir referred in his post:



The video comes from a list of explanations and tests on this page:


And a contribution to the nature of jitter is this thread:


If you want to understand how bias affects our cognition, which makes controls mandatory in audio comparisons, you can peruse this page:

 
Does jitter exist - not if a manufacturer uses systems to mask it and it's artefacts (as many do) I have many DAC's and my ears and system(s) are living examples of what jitter does to music reproduction.

My ears don't live in an oscilloscope or on A3 frequency printout

In MY real world I am using numerous sources/routes and devices to establish which if any improve the sound stage, the 'blackness' the imaging and depth.

What I am finding as I work my way back to an acceptable standard of reproduction is that jitter exists, it causes the edginess in the upper register, smears the image and makes the bass 'woolly'.

Yes, it will result in some huge pushback but. When I dodge the streaming 'kit' being sold as audio nirvana (it isn't) with its compressed playback (bricking) and designs intended to mask the in your face, boring, tiring and less than believable reproduction it's hard to ignore the cause.

To that end I have sourced multiple routes and my system is geared up to provide optimal signals and reproduction (for me) with instant comparisons of kit, routes etc.

Simple example is one of my test tracks - 1985 Redbook - Polygram copy of Brothers In Arms - DDD - pressed in Berlin. Totally emotive, swaying rising and falling reproduction. Post 2000 streams - bricked. Pushed to eliminate nuances and music (from my opinion) and whilst many like it (who may not be aware of early digital recording.

jitter adds to the post millenium fatigue and glare with many high end manufacturers engineer their signals to mask as the drive is to sell streams and convince you all audio perfection has been reached. They call this Upsampling or Digital Filtering

The Mask:
Many modern DACs use high-tap-count interpolation filters. This can make the sound "smooth," but it often does so by "pre-ringing"—essentially adding a tiny echo before the musical note.

The Result: This is likely what you’re (and I do) hearing as the "smeared image." If the timing of the leading edge of a note is blurred by a filter or jitter, the brain struggles to "place" the instrument in a 3D space.

The woolly bass and glassy highs - They are the classic signature of timing instability.

High-End Edginess:
Jitter manifests as "sidebands" around high frequencies. It’s not a separate noise; it’s a distortion that is mathematically related to the music. This is why it causes "fatigue"—your brain has to work harder to separate the "glare" from the actual violin or cymbal.
Wooly Bass: People often think bass is too slow to be affected by jitter, but bass impact depends on the phase accuracy of the harmonics. If the timing is off, the "slam" becomes a "thud."

Blackness (noise floor v resolution)
A site might measure a -120dB noise floor with a static tone, but they aren't measuring signal-correlated noise.
  • When the music starts, does the noise floor stay down? Or does it "pump" with the music?
  • I use a device called a Monarchy DIP I use it with a high-quality transport AND 2 NAS sources. The Monarchy (still available if you talk to CC Poon) ensures that the "silence between the notes" stays silent. That "blackness" is what allows the depth and imaging I am talking about to emerge and amaze.
Oh great, yet another personal bias report on an utterly unexistent and solved topic... :-D
 
re: post-millennium fatigue. Wasn't that what a lot of folks had on Jan 2 after the "Y2K" crisis that wasn't?
:rolleyes:
I've had post millennium fatigue every night since Y2K - just before I go to bed. Almost as if one causes the other. Conspiracy I say.
 
There’s been a number of these type of posts from new users with very few posts to their name who have joined this year, I think they are ai bots
The upside is missing. Some ad content, links, a rather easy to grasp narrative someone would campaign for money.
 
This one appears to be a drive by.
 
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