What does it take to succesfully transition to a green energy economy?

[SIY]

The Netherlands does not have the extended warm weather and sandy loamy soil for grapes from what I am aware of. I lived in a Okanagan wine orchard for months, it smelled glorious and we nibbled on wine type grapes as we where living in the orchard. The birds where a issue and there where bird bangers and shotgun shells going off intermittently but one became used to the noises and birds. It was one heckuva summer! Never forget it...

Ours isn't sandy loamy, we have shale and limestone. The cool weather and sometimes harsh winters are a major challenge, and the wines here will not satisfy lovers of the big, rich California and Aussie styles. But they are amazingly elegant, expressive of terroir, and often have (for me) perfect balance.

Our critter problem tends to be deer. Good vineyards have dogs in them.

 

[Doodski]

Ours isn't sandy loamy, we have shale and limestone. The cool weather and sometimes harsh winters are a major challenge, and the wines here will not satisfy lovers of the big, rich California and Aussie styles. But they are amazingly elegant, expressive of terroir, and often have (for me) perfect balance.

Our critter problem tends to be deer. Good vineyards have dogs in them.

I've made a little bit of wine with grapes that we planted as seedings. It took about 4 or 5 years to get anything meaningful from the vines but they where a Zinfandel and made some tasty red wine and one of my Italian friends was making grappa too. That stuff is powerful. I like grapes green, red or a hybrid. I'm sorry to see they are so expensive in the grocery now. I grabbed what I thought was maybe ~$5 of grapes and it turned out it was near $15 for them. I'm a Walmart shopper... LoL. I don't buy expensive treats unless it is moon rocks, salmon, beef steaks, shrimp and Valpolicella/Ruffino.

 

[Willem]

Our PV panels have paid for themselves a while ago. At current prices pay back time is about four years. This was without subsidy, but with a government regulation ensuring that what we sell into the grid gets the same price as for what we draw from the grid. This is no longer sustainable or necessary now that so many home owners have panels so it will be abolished over a period of a few years. After that we would now earn back the investment in a period of a few more years. All this is of course facilitated by our traditionally low interest rates.
We have our panels in east west orientation for highest output early in the morning and late in the afternoon. This also involves a quite flat angle, so together with a flat roof with high edges they are invisible from outside. I agree they can be fugly.

 

[Willem]

I am afraid I have to confess that Dutch wine is no Clos de Vougeot.

 

[Marc v E]

Buying early doesn't look like a good deal unless you use a lot of electricity (I know people who do, but not us) or you have a local utility which is forced by regulations or statute to pay high prices to buy surplus panel generation from customers.

I agree. It very much depends on if the surplus is bought by the local utility for a fair price. In fact, this is what kickstarted the solar panel revolution in Germany.

EVs are a special case, because with the exception of Tesla all of the major automakers appear to be losing money on them. Ford, for example, expects to lose $3B in 2023 on its EV operations. EV production from the traditional automakers is supply chain limited for now. Automakers don't appear to be racing to meet demand, they're racing to get production high enough to contend with mandates limiting or eliminating sales of new ICE vehicles.

I agree again. Ford is showing courage though by changing their business and openly sharing the associated costs of ramping up. In a few years time it will be rewarded by being profitable on evs where other OEMs lag behind.

 

[Timcognito]

The demand for EVs exceeded supplies well before mandates. My nephew has been waiting over a year to get his Ford F150 EV truck. Another friend just got his VW I.4 a year after his down payment.

 

[Ornette]

As a serious wine lover and resident of CA, I was very excited to spend a couple days touring wineries on Long Island a few years ago in conjunction with a trip to the US Open tennis tournament. I don't think I've ever been more disappointed in a wine region in my life. It simply rains too much there for optimal viticulture, and that was reflected in what I tasted. The whites from the Finger Lakes region have a good reputation, but my wife and I consume almost strictly reds, so we haven't explored them. No other state in the US remotely approaches California in the overall quality of its wines IMNSHO, which is not to say there aren't some world-class wines produced in other states as well.

 

[SIY]

The whites from the Finger Lakes region have a good reputation, but my wife and I consume almost strictly reds, so we haven't explored them. No other state in the US remotely approaches California in the overall quality of its wines IMNSHO, which is not to say there aren't some world-class wines produced in other states as well.

There's seriously excellent Pinot Noir, Cabernet Franc, Blaufrankisch, and Saperavi made here; I've been lobbying some vineyardists to try plantings of Feteasca Neagra, which I'm guessing will also do really well here.

But if you want overheated 15% ABV low acid monsters, this is not the place to be.

 

[Timcognito]

No other state in the US remotely approaches California in the overall quality of its wines IMNSHO, which is not to say there aren't some world-class wines produced in other states as well.

Also a frequent consumer of red and white wine here on the San Mateo County Coast. But wines from Oregon's Willamette Valley rival ours. My son live in Portland and we go up there frequently,

 

[Doodski]

a trip to the US Open tennis tournament.

DrOOL! I would love a seat at a prime match there.

No other state in the US remotely approaches California in the overall quality of its wines IMNSHO, which is not to say there aren't some world-class wines produced in other states as well.

What about the Okanagan region in Washington State?

 

[Ornette]

There's seriously excellent Pinot Noir, Cabernet Franc, Blaufrankisch, and Saperavi made here; I've been lobbying some vineyardists to try plantings of Feteasca Neagra, which I'm guessing will also do really well here.

But if you want overheated 15% ABV low acid monsters, this is not the place to be.

If there are some "seriously excellent" wines being made in NY state, I didn't encounter them on a two-day tour around Long Island. I may explore other regions there in the future, if the opportunity arises. There are CA wines that run the entire spectrum of extraction and ripeness. My wife and I drink mainly CA Pinot Noir, which is typically around 13.5% alcohol, and even lower in many coastal regions.

Also a frequent consumer of red and white wine here on the San Mateo County Coast. But wines from Oregon's Willamette Valley rival ours. My son live in Portland and we go up there frequently,

With some exceptions, the Willamette Valley Pinots are too a bit too austere for our tastes. I understand and respect that many prefer that style.

DrOOL! I would love a seat at a prime match there.

We've gone a few times, but always in the earlier rounds when there's more matches going on, and it's easy to bail on a non-competitive one for something better. You can just walk in and get right up close at some of the outer courts, and the talent level is awe-inspiring to watch live.

What about the Okanagan region in Washington State?

I absolutely adore some of the Cabs and Syrahs produced in WA state, but we rarely drink them nowadays for various reasons.

--------------

Perhaps we should get back on topic, although climate change notably impacts the quality of wine production. The fact that harvest dates have been steadily moving up for a number of years is another indicator to me that it's actually happening. YMMV.

 

[SIY]

If there are some "seriously excellent" wines being made in NY state, I didn't encounter them on a two-day tour around Long Island.

You may want to dig a bit deeper.

I'm going to a Saperavi festival next weekend. IMO, that's the grape of the future here.

 

[Doodski]

You may want to dig a bit deeper.

I'm going to a Saperavi festival next weekend. IMO, that's the grape of the future here.

NY state is hot in the long summers. What is the stuff holding it back for wine. The soil?

 

[SIY]

NY state is hot in the long summers. What is the stuff holding it back for wine. The soil?

It really isn't. The warmest part is around the west shore of Cayuga and that's still far cooler than most winegrowing areas on the West Coast. This is CLASSIC cool climate.

The soil is the strongest reason why the wine turns out so well- shale and limestone are as good as it gets for wine.

The thing "holding it back" (in your words) is the flexible winegrowing and winemaking that's necessary because of the large weather variations from vintage to vintage. If you look at 2019, 2020, and 2021, the weather conditions were wildly different and the wines reflect that- as they should.

With all due respect, you have some seriously odd ideas about NY wine.

 

[Doodski]

With all due respect, you have some seriously odd ideas about NY wine.

I maybe have odd ideas about wine in general. I've made some from Zinfandel grapes wine and it turned out pretty vinegar'ishy. I know very little about wine and learn a lot about it from you peeps here. Other than the little bit of the info that I gleaned from the local Italians who make wine every year I just know what I've tasted and enjoyed when I was a Italian restaurant lounge waiter in my teens. I by far have no skills about wine making and horticulture.

 

[Timcognito]

Some big players here. Not your cottage industry any more.

https://events.reutersevents.com/renewable-energy/wind-solar-usa

 

[Timcognito]

Not just the environmentalists and private property owners but the utilities themselves that resit expanding the grid.

Why utilities resist simple upgrades to boost renewables

More wind and solar energy could flow through existing power lines if utilities took advantage of a years-old technology. But bureaucracy, apprehension and

www.eenews.net

"Utilities are also financially rewarded for expanding their physical networks, he said. Revenues from their regulated rates of return generally increase when they have more physical assets, like power plants.
Many power companies thus prefer to add capacity by building an entirely new set of towers and lines, he said, rather than the much cheaper option of swapping out old power cables for advanced new ones."

 

[dc655321]

We make better wine here, though.

Only if Long Island doesn’t pee in that pool

 

[pablolie]

It really isn't. The warmest part is around the west shore of Cayuga and that's still far cooler than most winegrowing areas on the West Coast. This is CLASSIC cool climate.

The soil is the strongest reason why the wine turns out so well- shale and limestone are as good as it gets for wine.

The thing "holding it back" (in your words) is the flexible winegrowing and winemaking that's necessary because of the large weather variations from vintage to vintage. If you look at 2019, 2020, and 2021, the weather conditions were wildly different and the wines reflect that- as they should.

With all due respect, you have some seriously odd ideas about NY wine.

I had a delightful rose in the Hamptons, made locally. Rivals anything the Provence grows. Similarly priced of course, not a cheap terroire. :-D

Granted rose doesn't give u the same complexity as a Cab or Nebbiolo etc... but they're not going for that. Pinot Noir is also known for its finnicky nature and temperamental nature when out of its comfort zone. But yeah, Oregon makes amazing Pinot Noir.... as does South Cal (Arroyo, Sanford & Benedict, etc), but it is striking to see how different they are yet how great they are.

Vintages can vary radically from year to year. That's why wineries that desire consistency blend different things and even vintages to achieve a certain, brand-identity reflecting product. And I am pretty confident our taste buds adjust to different things, including climate change stuff. The change in wine regions' output/style is probably not the most dramatic and negative effect we can expect if we don't tackle the issue of climate change...

 

[blueone]

Not just the environmentalists and private property owners but the utilities themselves that resit expanding the grid.

Why utilities resist simple upgrades to boost renewables

More wind and solar energy could flow through existing power lines if utilities took advantage of a years-old technology. But bureaucracy, apprehension and

www.eenews.net

"Utilities are also financially rewarded for expanding their physical networks, he said. Revenues from their regulated rates of return generally increase when they have more physical assets, like power plants.
Many power companies thus prefer to add capacity by building an entirely new set of towers and lines, he said, rather than the much cheaper option of swapping out old power cables for advanced new ones."

What an asinine position is taken by that publication. Swapping cables? For advanced new ones? Seriously? Such bullshit.

The real reason that transmission lines aren't upgraded in place is that there's often insufficient transmission capacity to reroute the power the old lines carry, and that when you deploy higher voltage transmission lines (the whole point) you need different tower designs, which means an expensive, time-consuming process.