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What do you like in Roon?

jhaider

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I don't understand the use value either, but then again I don't understand why you would (a) stream your local library + (b) subscribe to a streaming service. For me streaming made local files superfluous.

Not everything is yet on streaming. To give you twou examples, a few months ago I looked for “No Quarter,” the album of Jimmy Page & Robert Plant’s “UnLEDded” concert that was broadcast on MTV ca 1995 and is best known for its Desi-infused variation on (what else?) “Kashmir.” It wasn’t on Apple Music or Tidal. Also, some time prior to the launch of Apple Classical I had looked for my favorite Beethoven Ninth, the Bernstein “Ode an der Freiheit” that celebrated the fall of the Berlin Wall. It wasn’t on Apple Music at the time, though it is now.

That said, the fact that these two performances stick out to me is a good indication of how thorough modern streaming music libraries are.
 

maverickronin

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Not everything is yet on streaming. To give you twou examples, a few months ago I looked for “No Quarter,” the album of Jimmy Page & Robert Plant’s “UnLEDded” concert that was broadcast on MTV ca 1995 and is best known for its Desi-infused variation on (what else?) “Kashmir.” It wasn’t on Apple Music or Tidal. Also, some time prior to the launch of Apple Classical I had looked for my favorite Beethoven Ninth, the Bernstein “Ode an der Freiheit” that celebrated the fall of the Berlin Wall. It wasn’t on Apple Music at the time, though it is now.

That said, the fact that these two performances stick out to me is a good indication of how thorough modern streaming music libraries are.

Fortunately Apple lets you browse their catalog without a membership so I gave it another look. The selection of Japanese and anime music has improved some which is great. Some video game soundtracks are there, but it could be a lot better. There is large community of video game music remixers on sites like OCRemix which is mostly absent. I searched several niche artists I've found on Bandcamp. A couple were there, but only with a limited subset of their music. (Yes Bandcamp has it's own streaming, but who wants to use two different streaming services?) Beyond that we can descend into the ultimate black hole of never finding it again: Unattributed video game remixes I downloaded off Napster and Kazaa in late 90's/early 00's.

I doubt streaming is ever going to replace local files for me.

Interestingly, the autocomplete was filling in a lot of the searches for me even when there were no results, so a bunch of other people must be as weird as I am.
 

RosalieTheDog

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I understand the remarks of jhaider and capman regarding streaming libraries not having everything, but even then the USP of roon is not clear to me. I could stream local files from my phone to my Chromecast; cheap microsd cards have rendered space on phones a non issue too.
 

CapMan

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@CapMan I don’t know or even care what the computer goobledegook you used (“convolution,” etc) means. I’m simpler than that
Best we agree to disagree at this point. I totally understand the points you make. However, they are not relevant for me and my use case.

I probably bought a different car to you because I have different requirements - does that make my car substandard or a poor choice?

You’ve said that Roon does a poor job of EQ yet you don’t understand what convolution is. This is an important and useful feature for me and others for correcting playback in our rooms.

I think I will leave it there. All the best.
 
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Phorize

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So ‘what we like about roon’ becomes a ‘what we hate about roon’ pile on;)

It’s slick, and I get why those who love it love it. Software costs money to develop, so I don’t feel that’s it’s too expensive. Whether it’s worth it depends entirely on what one wants out of music software-there are a host of reasons why roon wouldn’t cut it, but if you are one of the people for whom it does, I can see very well why it would feel like nirvana.
 

CapMan

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So ‘what we like about roon’ becomes a ‘what we hate about roon’ pile on;)

It’s slick, and I get why those who love it love it. Software costs money to develop, so I don’t feel that’s it’s too expensive. Whether it’s worth it depends entirely on what one wants out of music software-there are a host of reasons why roon wouldn’t cut it, but if you are one of the people for whom it does, I can see very well why it would feel like nirvana.
The End :)
 

Waxx

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So ‘what we like about roon’ becomes a ‘what we hate about roon’ pile on;)

It’s slick, and I get why those who love it love it. Software costs money to develop, so I don’t feel that’s it’s too expensive. Whether it’s worth it depends entirely on what one wants out of music software-there are a host of reasons why roon wouldn’t cut it, but if you are one of the people for whom it does, I can see very well why it would feel like nirvana.
That's true, and it does not do it for me. So i stick with JRiver that does. But for those who think contrary, whatever floats your boat... as long as it works for you, it's good for you. No need to hate what you don't like, be it hardware or software
 

jhaider

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I probably bought a different car to you because I have different requirements - does that make my car substandard or a poor choice

If you bought a car that can only drive on a small handful of the roads in your area because you “don’t use all the other roads anyway,” then yes you definitely made a very poor choice on a decidedly substandard vehicle.
You’ve said that Roon does a poor job of EQ yet you don’t understand what convolution is.

You claim you understand my point but then you come back with words indicating otherwise. Capabilities are outside the scope of applicability;
 

Rednaxela

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Apple Music/Classical.

YouTube.

Deezer.

Bandcamp.

NFL Gamepass/DAZU.

Spotify.

Apple Podcasts.

Netflix.

Amazon Prime.

YouTube TV/NFL Sunday Ticket.

AppleTV+.

Max.

Disney+.

Paramount Plus.

Hulu.

etc.

If you’re using Roon as your EQ capability, you’re just guaranteeing yourself a second-rate sonic experience when enjoying program on any of the above streaming services. And realistically anyone who streams any content will use at least one of those sources (or some other one that’s not Tidal/Wobuz) some of the time, even if it's not her primary source.

Now, if you're using it as a music discovery tool in concert or player for Tidal/Wobuz/local content upstream of a proper hardware controller, then cool.

@CapMan I don’t know or even care what the computer goobledegook you used (“convolution,” etc) means. I’m simpler than that - either
(a) calibration signal processing works for all the program playing through that audio system, or
(b) calibration signal processing fails at its basic core purpose of calibrating the audio system.
That is distinct from tone control, which logically follows the program rather than the system and therefore makes good sense to include in a player.

Given that, the above incomplete list of streaming services (+ vinyl) Roon's EQ cannot touch should answer the question you posed above, even if we stipulate that digital disks are last decade's thing. Yet this expensive niche software used by barely any is often brought up here as justification to praise equipment makers for tinkering with circuit boards to get an extra inaudible dB of SINAD rather than adding real value by including calibration tools in their products. But for that Roon from my perspective would be just one more thing of many that's great for other people and that's that.
Excellent post.
 

CapMan

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If you bought a car that can only drive on a small handful of the roads in your area, then yes you definitely made a very poor choice on a decidedly substandard vehicle.


You claim you understand my point but then you come back with words indicating otherwise. Capabilities are outside the scope of applicability.

Oh please just let it go now or I’ll think I’m being trolled :)

Let people make their choices and judgements based on their requirements and needs.

Have a great weekend.
 

Purité Audio

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All rather pointless, use the software that best suits your needs, Roon is my choice after having tried many but hardly worth arguing over.
Keith
 

Snoopy

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.

Given that, the above incomplete list of streaming services (+ vinyl) Roon's EQ cannot touch should answer the question you posed above, even if we stipulate that digital disks are last decade's thing. Yet this expensive niche software used by barely any is often brought up here as justification to praise equipment makers for tinkering with circuit boards to get an extra inaudible dB of SINAD rather than adding real value by including calibration tools in their products. But for that Roon from my perspective would be just one more thing of many that's great for other people and that's that.

Buy a Dirac streamer with roon support and you can throw whatever lossy video streaming service that you want at the device. Best with eARC. Problem solved.

Roon has its target audience.. I don't need room correction in a headphone setup for example. And convolution filters work great for loudspeakers with roon as source. Its pretty simple also. No need to be a geek.
 

formdissolve

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The app has become a bit bloated and slow, but I enjoy Roon's ability to make network listening a lot easier for me with no major hitches.

Likes: I can integrate Qobuz easily with my own files on a NAS, easily deploy Raspberry Pi Bridges for listening in other rooms, and utilize the DSP tools when necessary. It also supports all types of files I need out of the box without plugins and annoying configuration.

Dislikes: I understand the idea of the Core as in the main "brain" but that means I can't use the Roon app on my laptop when I go to the coffee shop/office or anywhere else. Yes, I could tunnel into my connection at home (or use their Mobile app), but that's a pain and also uses my own internet bandwidth that has fairly slow upload. The only way to use it is to constantly switch the Core between devices.
 

Snoopy

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The app has become a bit bloated and slow, but I enjoy Roon's ability to make network listening a lot easier for me with no major hitches.

Likes: I can integrate Qobuz easily with my own files on a NAS, easily deploy Raspberry Pi Bridges for listening in other rooms, and utilize the DSP tools when necessary. It also supports all types of files I need out of the box without plugins and annoying configuration.

Dislikes: I understand the idea of the Core as in the main "brain" but that means I can't use the Roon app on my laptop when I go to the coffee shop/office or anywhere else. Yes, I could tunnel into my connection at home (or use their Mobile app), but that's a pain and also uses my own internet bandwidth that has fairly slow upload. The only way to use it is to constantly switch the Core between devices.


The mobile app allows offline files (from your local library). Maybe that works for you.
 

formdissolve

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The mobile app allows offline files (from your local library). Maybe that works for you.
Yes, I do that but I have to be selective of what I put on my phone since it doesn't have a ton of storage. Gets kind of annoying to go through and add/remove all the time, but not a total pain I guess.
 

Emulator II

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Not everything is yet on streaming. To give you twou examples, a few months ago I looked for “No Quarter,” the album of Jimmy Page & Robert Plant’s “UnLEDded” concert that was broadcast on MTV ca 1995 and is best known for its Desi-infused variation on (what else?) “Kashmir.” It wasn’t on Apple Music or Tidal. Also, some time prior to the launch of Apple Classical I had looked for my favorite Beethoven Ninth, the Bernstein “Ode an der Freiheit” that celebrated the fall of the Berlin Wall. It wasn’t on Apple Music at the time, though it is now.

That said, the fact that these two performances stick out to me is a good indication of how thorough modern streaming music libraries are.
...in the meantime it's available on Tidal:


Good album btw.
 

jhaider

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...in the meantime it's available on Tidal:


Good album btw.

Hmm. I get this:
Tidal Page Plant No Qrtr Link.png


Maybe it's a regional thing. Fortunately Apple Music offers easy access to one's local music library as well.

Apple Music local file integration.png
 

jhaider

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Buy a Dirac streamer with roon support and you can throw whatever lossy video streaming service that you want at the device. Best with eARC. Problem solved.

Obviously. That is a great example of my point - system calibration needs to be in the signal chain for all sources.

If people like Roon for music discovery or as a tool to access their own library/stream from Tidal/Wobuz, then great for them and for Roon!

However, unlike a "Dirac streamer" Roon is not a system calibration tool, because the EQ is not applied to all sources. Yet, here Roon seems often to be erroneously touted as such, with this reasoning error offered as an excuse to justify a lack of useful innovation from audio hardware makers.

I don't need room correction in a headphone setup for example.

No, but you do need EQ based on reliable measurements and informed by personal preference to maximize fidelity on almost all passive headphones. Roon fails at that just as it fails with loudspeakers, for the same reason: because it acts on a very limited subset of program.

So if most people use Roon for music discovery/streaming/file playback on headphones they still need a proper controller-amp, e.g. Quedlix 5K or RME ADI-2.

Sadly no other examples of actually-adequate-to-task headphone controller-amps come to mind, though one could also use miniDSP or similar and an analog headphone amp as a workaround to address the gross inadequacy of most products marketed as headphone DAC-amps. Again, one reason for this market failure is that makers of pointless me-too whatevers with incremental inaudible SINAD gains over existing products win praise here, and when called out for it Roon is touted as an alternative to useful audio hardware when it is simply not.
 

khensu

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Roon is touted as an alternative to useful audio hardware when it is simply not.
I wouldn’t say I’ve gotten that impression. It’s touted as a tool for your arsenal, should you find it useful. Some do, some don’t.

The impression I do get, though, is you either really despise Roon (which is fine) or you’re looking for someone to argue with (not so much).
 
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