USB to digital converters - all the same?

[SiW]

Have done A/B testing with a HiFiMe Sabre and D10 to a basic DAC (PCM5101 chip) and Fiio A3 amp to a pair of NAS Viso headphone - can’t hear any (noticeable) difference.

Is this to be expected (its digital after all) and the only real difference is the maximum sample rate which each can handle (24/96 vs 32/384)?

Or is my DAC and amp (or my ears) so poor I can’t hear the difference?

Cheers!

Simon

 

[RayDunzl]

Is this to be expected?

It should be.

You're converting a stream of data from one encapsulation (USB protocol enveloping the data) to another (S/PDIF I suppose) carrying (ultimately) the same data.

There could be faults - grounding, clock rate, jitter, signal strength, etc., but a reasonable implementation should permit the goes-in to come-out.

I use a $20 converter from PC USB to Optical for the little testing I do (in-room) and the minimal amount of listening that is sourced from the PC. I see/hear nothing odd with the results in REW nor in the musical results.

 

[SiW]

Thanks Ray - maybe the Sabre will get a stay of execution for now and this is its best use!

 

[solderdude]

Have done A/B testing with a HiFiMe Sabre and D10 to a basic DAC (PCM5101 chip) and Fiio A3 amp to a pair of NAS Viso headphone - can’t hear any (noticeable) difference.

Is this to be expected (its digital after all) and the only real difference is the maximum sample rate which each can handle (24/96 vs 32/384)?

Or is my DAC and amp (or my ears) so poor I can’t hear the difference?

Cheers!

Simon

Also consider the HP50 is not the most revealing headphone out there (even though it sounds pleasant) it starts to drop-off quickly from 16kHz. So even if the DAC puts out 100kHz the headphone doesn't do much above 16kHz anyway.
I have one too and even though it is a very pleasant sounding headphone and with EQ more accurate I can hear obvious differences in 'resolution' between the HP50 and some better extended headphones. I can't hear differences between DACs either... I consider myself DAC deaf whcih saves me considerable amounts of cash.

 

[andreasmaaan]

A USB-SPDIF converter would have to be grossly flawed to have a "sound" I would think. I used to think I could hear differences some years ago but in retrospect these were the classic kinds of differences one hears when listening for something...

 

[andreasmaaan]

Also consider the HP50 is not the most revealing headphone out there (even though it sounds pleasant) it starts to drop-off quickly from 16kHz. So even if the DAC puts out 100kHz the headphone doesn't do much above 16kHz anyway.
I have one too and even though it is a very pleasant sounding headphone and with EQ more accurate I can hear obvious differences in 'resolution' between the HP50 and some better extended headphones. I can't hear differences between DACs either... I consider myself DAC deaf whcih saves me considerable amounts of cash.

I also have a pair of the HP50s - I'd be interested to know what EQ curve you use if you wouldn't mind sharing?

 

[solderdude]

I will measure my (analog) EQ filter one of these days and post what it does.

 

[andreasmaaan]

I will measure my (analog) EQ filter one of these days and post what it does.

Much appreciate it

I mostly use mine as a DJ headphone since they seal/isolate well and have solid bass, but I also have an EQ filter preset in my RME for home listening from time to time. I can't recall the precise settings now but I think I'm pulling the bass as a whole down by a dB or two and also nudging it down by another 4 or 5 dB around 180Hz, and also down a few dB at around 5KHz. I feel like it's a definite improvement but not perfect, so just curious to know what you're doing for comparison.

I also added a few little slivers of cardboard on the bottom/back corner of the cups to improve the seal. This worked.

Another observation about them - they seem to produce the smoothest tonal balance when worn with the band pushed forward to the front of my head near the hairline. I imagine that's something quite specific to their interaction with my ears/head, however.

Anyway, that's enough off-topic, sorry...

 

[hvbias]

Off the top of my head I have tried Musical Fidelity V-Link, ESI Juli@, E-MU0404 USB, E-MU0404 (internal PCI), M-Audio Audiophile USB, M-Audio Transit and borrowed Lynx AES16e. As long as the digital signal was not being attenuated before hand they all sounded the same.

 

[SiW]

Much appreciate it

I mostly use mine as a DJ headphone since they seal/isolate well and have solid bass, but I also have an EQ filter preset in my RME for home listening from time to time. I can't recall the precise settings now but I think I'm pulling the bass as a whole down by a dB or two and also nudging it down by another 4 or 5 dB around 180Hz, and also down a few dB at around 5KHz. I feel like it's a definite improvement but not perfect, so just curious to know what you're doing for comparison.

I also added a few little slivers of cardboard on the bottom/back corner of the cups to improve the seal. This worked.

Another observation about them - they seem to produce the smoothest tonal balance when worn with the band pushed forward to the front of my head near the hairline. I imagine that's something quite specific to their interaction with my ears/head, however.

Anyway, that's enough off-topic, sorry...

I have had to play with the position a bit as the left side sealed fine but the right side seemed to be ‘open’ and not sealing.

Have rotated the pads and that helped a little.

Agree with the headband though - better the further further for me too.

Out of interest, are you using the original cable or an aftermarket one? It seems quite thin and delicate! Sure it won’t sound any different

Glad it’s not just me imagining no difference - as I have a DX3Pro on its way may need to move the D10 to my desk

Simon

 

[andreasmaaan]

I have had to play with the position a bit as the left side sealed fine but the right side seemed to be ‘open’ and not sealing.

Have rotated the pads and that helped a little.

Agree with the headband though - better the further further for me too.

Out of interest, are you using the original cable or an aftermarket one? It seems quite thin and delicate! Sure it won’t sound any different

Glad it’s not just me imagining no difference - as I have a DX3Pro on its way may need to move the D10 to my desk

Simon

Just using the original cable, yes. Have also noticed how delicate it seems but I actually quite like it - not sure how long it will last though

 

[solderdude]

I also have a pair of the HP50s - I'd be interested to know what EQ curve you use if you wouldn't mind sharing?

This is the difference between my analog filter and stock. You can derive the applied EQ from the differences. Basically a rising shelve filter from 300Hz up and an 8kHz band filter reducing the wide 'treble peak'.

 

[andreasmaaan]

This is the difference between my analog filter and stock. You can derive the applied EQ from the differences. Basically a rising shelve filter from 300Hz up and an 8kHz band filter reducing the wide 'treble peak'.

Nice, thanks