Upgrade/Improve - Post setups, others point where to spend money

[onethreetwowaitthatswrong]

Hello,

Saw a lot of individual threads about improving systems or part of them, but no general thread where we could list our whole systems and others could have fun and point their weak points/where significant improvements or logical next steps could be made ; where money could/should be invested and how much compared to the rest of the elements/the gains it should provide/what they would do if it was their setup;
Thought this could interest or be enjoyable for some, and be a good place to post for many without precise demands that would warrant opening a new thread


Of course, I'll start

Main system - big room :
Amp/dac : Cambridge CXA61
Speakers : Triangle Elara LN05
Subwoofer : Focal Chorus SW-700V
CD player : Naim CD5XS w/ HiCap2-DR
Tuner : Micromega Minium
Sources to amp : CD, Tuner, Bluetooth, Usb

Bedroom - small room
Audio Selector Switch : Dynavox Aux-S
Dac / Headphones amp : Topping DX3Pro+
Amp : Teac NP-H750
Speakers : Focal Chorus 706
Headphones : Sennheiser 560s
Sources : Computer, Teac internet radio, bluetooth

Office/nomad setup - noisy surroundings
Dac : Astell & Kern Dual Dac
Headphones : Sennheiser HD599
Sources : Computer


Now, what I feel is my weak point is the HD599, because it's open back and entry-level. Picked it up refurbished for a really cheap price and put it to use, but I could probably enjoy a good closed back one instead. The Focal Celestee has been eyeing me, not gonna lie, especially discounted as it is these days (700€ with a free Dragonfly Cobalt - yes, I know what ASR thinks of it, but it could be sold back right after to further reduce prize !). Would like to get better speakers than the entry level Focal 706 but got a very hard time to find some appropriate for a 10-11 m² room (nice discount on the Aria 906 for instance, but clearly oversized for the surface). Measurement-wise, the Teac is probably not that great too. Kept it so far over a Rega IO (that measures bad too anyways) beause of it good functionnalities but there are certainly better options now. Could also claim that there could be better options, money provided, than the 560s but the HD600 or 660S2 only seems such a slight step ahead that it wouldn't be really justified, and I really got lost in the comparison to the likes of Hifiman XS, Ananda, etc., without going over the 1000bucks mark
Oh well, your turn now

​

 

[DJBonoBobo]

Hello,

Saw a lot of individual threads about improving systems or part of them, but no general thread where we could list our whole systems and others could have fun and point their weak points/where significant improvements or logical next steps could be made ; where money could/should be invested and how much compared to the rest of the elements/the gains it should provide/what they would do if it was their setup;
Thought this could interest or be enjoyable for some, and be a good place to post for many without precise demands that would warrant opening a new thread


Of course, I'll start

Main system - big room :
Amp/dac : Cambridge CXA61
Speakers : Triangle Elara LN05
Subwoofer : Focal Chorus SW-700V
CD player : Naim CD5XS w/ HiCap2-DR
Tuner : Micromega Minium
Sources to amp : CD, Tuner, Bluetooth, Usb

Bedroom - small room
Audio Selector Switch : Dynavox Aux-S
Dac / Headphones amp : Topping DX3Pro+
Amp : Teac NP-H750
Speakers : Focal Chorus 706
Headphones : Sennheiser 560s
Sources : Computer, Teac internet radio, bluetooth

Office/nomad setup - noisy surroundings
Dac : Astell & Kern Dual Dac
Headphones : Sennheiser HD599
Sources : Computer


Now, what I feel is my weak point is the HD599, because it's open back and entry-level. Picked it up refurbished for a really cheap price and put it to use, but I could probably enjoy a good closed back one instead. The Focal Celestee has been eyeing me, not gonna lie, especially discounted as it is these days (700€ with a free Dragonfly Cobalt - yes, I know what ASR thinks of it, but it could be sold back right after to further reduce prize !). Would like to get better speakers than the entry level Focal 706 but got a very hard time to find some appropriate for a 10-11 m² room (nice discount on the Aria 906 for instance, but clearly oversized for the surface). Measurement-wise, the Teac is probably not that great too. Kept it so far over a Rega IO (that measures bad too anyways) beause of it good functionnalities but there are certainly better options now. Could also claim that there could be better options, money provided, than the 560s but the HD600 or 660S2 only seems such a slight step ahead that it wouldn't be really justified, and I really got lost in the comparison to the likes of Hifiman XS, Ananda, etc., without going over the 1000bucks mark
Oh well, your turn now

So you have money to spend but you don't know where and why. That's what i understand at least.
If it is internet approval you are after, i suggest you just pretend owning products with good reviews. You don't have to actually buy them, because no one will ask for proof.

Pick a charity of your choice instead and spend your money there.

 

[onethreetwowaitthatswrong]

So you have money to spend but you don't know where and why. That's what i understand at least.
If it is internet approval you are after, i suggest you just pretend owning products with good reviews. You don't have to actually buy them, because no one will ask for proof.

Pick a charity of your choice instead and spend your money there.

No, I read a lot of ASR topics and, as many others here who enjoy listening to music without giving what we have of money to borderline scam products, got lost in a sea of so-called good reviews, loudly voiced opinions, and sometimes don't know where they should focus their efforts (and money since such equipment isn't free), and create a lot of threads explaining those situations. The idea there was to gather such concerns, and open them to others who clearly enjoy giving others pieces of advice on the topic considering the time they spend doing so around here.
I dully beg pardon for trying to phrase it in a light way, that was not the facts-first no fun allowed policy approved preference. I'd be very glad if audio-enthusiast spent half as much money giving to charities than they spent buying overpriced gadgets, but that's a) the point of ASR for this to not happen b) not my place and in my power to tell others how they should spent their money.

 

[DVDdoug]

Now, what I feel is my weak point is the HD599,

Speakers & headphones (and room acoustics) are almost always the weak link (or at-least they will always make a difference for better or worse). Exceptions might be if you have an under-powered amplifier, or if you are playing analog records, or maybe you have a particular problem.

With headphones, there is almost no correlation between sound quality and price. And different people have different opinions & preferences. There are also comfort considerations and preferences for open or closed designs. For audio pros, ruggedness and reliability are big considerations, and for a singer listening to a backing track while recording open headphones are not an option.

 

[coonmanx]

I think the "weak point" in systems is often the owner who frets about the system instead of enjoying the music. I have three different systems and none of them cost a whole lot. But they all sound good and I don't constantly worry about whether or not any one system is perfect. Life is too short for that. Just make sure that you have decent speakers.

 

[Steven Holt]

Don't be so much concerned with what other people have, focus in on what you have. Read Amir's technical articles and understand the measurements so you know what makes what good. There's an article in here, it's called THE SIGNAL CHAIN, I urge you to read it. Listen to our senior membership, they know more and better than those YouTube people, most of whom are hopeless. (As for my rig, it's damned near perfect FOR ME)

 

[suttondesign]

Ouch. The poster just wants to have the sort of conversation we used to have at audio meets. Nothing wrong with that except that we don't get the pictures we used to put on internet "bulletin boards" after such meets. I miss those days.

 

[kemmler3D]

I don't know why everyone is being cranky about your being direct about 1) having a bunch of $$ gear and 2) asking for recs... both of these things are very common here. Welcome to ASR, you will eventually learn to ignore the cranks.

That said, I think most people are confident in their choices here, and/or not keen to "brag" about their systems too much, so you might not get a lot of folks listing their kit.

All that said I tend to agree that the HD599s are the least suitable component you have, since you're using them out and about and they're open-backed. SQ questions aside that's just not practical.

I'd say have a look at IEMs (truthear zero is a very common rec here) or Beyerdynamic cans as an out-of-home unit. Or if you want to go way up the chain, Audeze LCD-XC have great sound and isolation... in my experience.

Frankly though, a set of Sony wh-1000xm5 or wh-1000xm4 are worth thinking about for OOH. Noise cancellation in noisy environments is popular for a reason, and with too much background noise, it doesn't matter how good your headphones are. And the audible degradation of sound quality you get from using a built-in DAC and Bluetooth is much smaller than most audiophiles online would have you believe.

 

[suttondesign]

If the price is right, and you can EQ, the Sean HD600 are, to me, the greatest value in audio (next to the TruthEar in-ear thingies for $50), but the HD800 have a better soundstage (again, need EQ). The HD600 are so snuggly and nice, too. I dealt in several lines over the years, and I never thought any were better, and most were worse. For whatever reason, there doesn't seem to be a way to make a dynamic driver do everything right without user-end EQ. I use Roon, so I'm fine with that.

I think if you want closed-back, use the TruthEar in-ear instead. They are beautiful sounding.

 

[Frank Dernie]

point their weak points/where significant improvements or logical next steps could be made

After almost 60 years a music lover and later an enthusiast for better sound quality I would say that the thing making most difference is the room and where your speakers and listening position are within it.
Second is the speakers themselves - Amir tests show some good items to put on a short list for your own evaluation.

With electronics as long as your power amp is powerful enough for your speakers it is a styling you like, functions you need and reliability to look for.
After years of thinking I had chosen good electronics by audition careful level matched comparisons showed I couldn’t actually tell the difference between any properly engineered DACs. I could hear some differences on some of the switchable reconstruction filters where fitted, dCS for example, but with the classic filter I couldn’t reliably tell one from another level matched and “blind” (my daughter switching so I wasn’t aware which was which that way.

If you listen on your own you can compensate for peaks in the bass at your listening position using software (but not really troughs unless very shallow - you run out of power and speaker power handling pretty quickly trying to fill a node!)

I dislike listening on headphones so despite having many almost never use them except on the bus.

 

[suttondesign]

I'd say have a look at IEMs (truthear zero is a very common rec here) or Beyerdynamic cans as an out-of-home unit. Or if you want to go way up the chain, Audeze LCD-XC have great sound and isolation... in my experience.

Frankly though, a set of Sony wh-1000xm5 or wh-1000xm4 are worth thinking about for OOH. Noise cancellation in noisy environments is popular for a reason, and with too much background noise, it doesn't matter how good your headphones are.

I found the Beyers to have too much ear-piercing distortion in the 1-3khz range, personally. I love the voluptuous sound of the Audeze LCD-XC, but the poster doesn't seem to want to spend that much, and boy are those cans heavy!

 

[kemmler3D]

boy are those cans heavy!

It doesn't bother me much, but yeah they weigh an insane amount. They would not be good for a "walking down the street" scenario, just sitting in place... My open-backs from another brand feel like toys compared to them when I switch back and forth!

 

[rdenney]

I'm going to buck the trend and take the OP's request at face value.

My main system at present has the following components:

-Revel F12 speakers (no subs)
-Buckeye NC502MP amplifier
-B&K MC-101 preamplifier into a home-built balanced output converter that uses THAT chips
-Cambridge Audio CXC CD transport into a Topping E30 DAC
-Marantz Professional PMD-331 CD player
-Cambridge Audio Azur 640C CD player
-Yamaha YDP2006 digital parametric equalizer (using REW as the basis for settings)
-HP laptop computer:
--Musical Fidelity V90 DAC for streaming, and recorded digital playback.
--Benchmark ADC1USB for recording analog sources into the computer
-Atom headphone amp, Sennheiser HD6xx (from Massdrop) headphones. I'm using a separate amp because my other headphone amps are too far away from my comfy chair
-And for vintage media:
--Carver TX-11a tuner
--Thorens TD166MkII with AT-440MLb
--Nakamichi 480 cassette deck
--Teac A4300 open reel deck
--dbx 400 for supporting the needed three tape loops

The weakest link in this system is my room, though I might be able to manage that a bit better with added subs, so next on the purchase list will be subs. For integrating the subs, I might be able to use the DSP in the subs, or I can add my spare Yamaha parametric equalizer to EQ the subs separately from the mains. Or, I can add a MiniDSP and replace the Yamaha EQ.

The device in the digital-source playback chain with the worst performance is the analog B&K preamp, which has a SINAD of probably 95-100 dB. But there is little chance of that making an audible difference, and the B&K preamp is one of the best that was available in the analog world, at least for a reasonable price, particular given my requirements for a phono section, a tape loop, a processor loop, a tone bypass, and a line amp bypass.

I have three CD players because I have a lot of old CDR's that seem to like different players to playback correctly. And it gives me lots of backup--I've spent a lot of money on CD players that then failed irreparably and I'm done with that. One of them was a Naim CD player that is probably the blackest dot in my audio history--it failed within 8 months of purchase after spending $750 in the hopes that I would no longer be a slave to crappy plastic loading drawers.

Playing good recordings on this system is most satisfying.

My Youtube-watching system in my workout room includes:
-AppleTV version 4, with HDMI into an old but still beautiful Samsung 4264 plasma TV
-Coax digital from Samsung to SMSL Sanskrit 10th MkII DAC, mostly to get a remote volume control
-RCA from DAC to B&K Reference 125.2 amplifier
-Advent NLA speakers

Given the source and the fact that the only thing I had to buy to make this work was the DAC, there are no weakness except that it's installed in a former two-car garage with concrete block walls. Although just this week I threw in a Sony DVD player that was a $10.83 open-box buy at Best Buy to play DVD's, and listened to a Yes concert DVD from 2003. Sounded great, but it's a concert recording, so there's that.

Office system:
-Adcom GFP535 amp
-Kenwood Basic C1 preamplifier
-Cambridge Audio D500SE CD player, though it's having some difficulties so I'll probably move the 640C from the main system down to the office until I can get around to fixing it
-Nakamichi BX-300 cassette deck, because I had nowhere else to put it
-Pioneer BS22LR speakers (no subs)
-At present, I'm pressing a Presonus Stuidio 24C USB interface into DAC duty because I also use it for a microphone for online meetings and training courses that I teach. The microphone is an Audio-Technica AT2035 which sadly does not make me sound like Morgan Freeman.

The weak link with that system is definitely the lack of a sub, but otherwise it sounds really quite good in spite of its low cost

As to what the OP might consider as the weakest link, I would think that it's too much money spent on some items that bring no measurable return on that investment. But I can't suggest anything one way or the other regarding the speakers, seeing no proper testing of those speakers or their built-in amps.

Rick "bought very little in these systems brand new" Denney

 

[onethreetwowaitthatswrong]

There are also comfort considerations and preferences for open or closed designs.

Yup, that's why my only real question was "hey, what do you guys think about this closed-ear offer ?"

I don't know why everyone is being cranky about your being direct about 1) having a bunch of $$ gear and 2) asking for recs... both of these things are very common here. Welcome to ASR, you will eventually learn to ignore the cranks.

That said, I think most people are confident in their choices here, and/or not keen to "brag" about their systems too much, so you might not get a lot of folks listing their kit.

All that said I tend to agree that the HD599s are the least suitable component you have, since you're using them out and about and they're open-backed. SQ questions aside that's just not practical.

Funny thing is, I never bought a new real expensive item on this whole least. The most expensive has been long term lended to me, the rest was almost all second hand, except the 560s & the DX3Ppro+, which half the people here own too. The only one I got which was both somewhat expensive and new (with a +20%discount) was the CXA. And the gear some grumpy people list in their signatures here is worth 5 times everything I wrote... Will check these refs, thanks.

Am not even concerned of other people's gear, just curious and interested of what people get to by following the more evidence-based trend here. If I wanted to dickmeasure it I'd go on the hundreds of forums that made it their main activity. Am generally happy with my home systems, but thought it might start some discussions or someone would want my opinion on one of those, or might notice something I hadn't

 

[AaronJ]

My system is a balance of measurements-based and enjoyment-based. I put stock into the items where measurements will give me the best sound, Revel M106 speakers, dual subwoofers, and MiniDSP running Dirac Live. The rest of the electronics are just things I enjoy owning and using. 99% of music is played through my vintage Sansui system, AU-5500 integrated amp, TU-5500 tuner, and SR-929 turntable. I didn't put big bucks into the digital components because I hardly use them, but I selected them based on size and features mostly. I have a Shanling Tempo eC1b CD player and Wiim Pro Plus.

My feeling is if there's something that you're "wondering" if you should upgrade, you should just get something that makes you happy to use. I picked beautiful speakers that measure as well as possible, and beautiful electronics without caring one bit about how they measure, and I've never been happier with my system.

 

[rdenney]

For headphones, I have always preferred over-ear rather than on-ear or in-ear. Here's what I have:

JBL Endurance Peak IEM's. I keep these in my briefcase and use them in hotel gyms while traveling. A five-mile run on a dreadmill is a lot less monotonous when I can listen to music or a good podcast while doing so. These are not great, but then nothing in-ear is great for me. In this use case, though, in-ear is really the sensible choice.

Sony MDR-ZX110NC wired noise-canceling (sort-of) on-ear headphones. This was an experiment and they were only fifty bucks. I don't like on-ear headphones, though, and the noise canceling on these was minimal at best. And the wire was a problem, always having to have adapters for my Apple phones. PITA, but it was worth fifty bucks to validate the concept. These will work without the noise-canceling feature being turned on, but they will not work very well. With their internal electronics turned on, they sound pretty darn good for their price.

Bose Quiet-Comfort II Bluetooth headphones. These tested well and they work very well for me, and I was willing to pay the price for them because of Amir's testing and because of my concept validation with the Sony cheapies. I just don't want to sweat in them, or I'd use them on the treadmill. After several hours on the plane, I develop sore spots around my ears, but I wear glasses and the earpieces are always a problem in that regard, in addition to causing a leak that lets in some noise. Being closed, these are also great for private listening. But they only work with devices that send audio over Bluetooth, which does not include my main system. I wish the pads on them would not make sore spots but still seal well--the background noise drops substantially when I press the earpieces onto my head to get a better seal, but just being tighter would probably make them less comfortable over time.

AKG K371 headphones. I bought these because they were the thing to buy. They sound great but not nearly as great as the Sennheiser HD6xx--they are just a bit dull in comparison.

Sennheiser HD6xx, from MassDrop. These are supposedly HD-650's, and they look like them. These are my go-to headphones for listening at home when I'm sitting next to my headphone amp. A bit more comfortable than the Bose QCII and they also seal better.

Sennheiser RS175 wireless headphones. The base station for these is wired into my main system and it works from a line-level output (the phones have their own volume control). They have an adjustable input pad to ensure the line-level signal doesn't overdrive their internal transmitter. They are open-back and not so good for private listening, or for shutting out noise, but they where what I used before buying the Atom amp and the HD6xx phones, and what I still use if I need wireless listening from my main system. These are the most comfortable of any of them. These are a bit boomy in the mid-bass in comparison comparison to the HD6xx and Bose headphones. I have not attempted to EQ them to sort that.

What's the weak link in my headphone listening? Wearing glasses.

Rick "can't see without 'em" Denney