Tripp Lite Isobar 6 vs Furman PST-6

[Pancreas]

zerosurge does a lot of advertising on forums, defending and explaining ive noticed in my research. I don't see this from surgex, in fact they are quite invisible on forums, also hard to reach, i emailed them and never got a damn response

 

[Martini]

zerosurge does a lot of advertising on forums, defending and explaining ive noticed in my research. I don't see this from surgex, in fact they are quite invisible on forums, also hard to reach, i emailed them and never got a damn response

For what it's worth I've call ZeroSurge a few times, twice with Jim picking up and he spent more time on the phone with me than I expected. They don't market themselves as "audio devices", thus not frequenting the audio forum. I you're really seeking an audio device seek out Shuyata or Audioquest, they will be happy to fleece you wallet with slick marketing.

 

[T0paz]

Well, only the Furman pst-8 has series mode, but it also has MOV, is not purely series mode. It doesn't compare to zerosurge or surgex.

Furman used an expired ZeroSurge patent from the 90's and modified the design (pretty bold on their part). They initially called their product Series Mode Protection and had to change the name due to trademark infringement (settled in a lawsuit they lost), so SMP now stand for Series Multistage Protection. Since it's not true Series Mode, they added an MOV at the end of their chain to deal with the residual surges. I agree it doesn't compare to ZeroSurge or SurgeX SM/ASM products (not all SurgeX branded products are Series Mode)

I too have talked to Jim a number of times over the years and he has been very helpful. He is easy to talk to and makes time (which also surprised me). I thought his reply was spot on and not negative but to a reader it would depend on where you stand on certain technologies. To reach SurgeX try contacting them on Facebook.

 

[Pancreas]

Furman used an expired ZeroSurge patent from the 90's and modified the design (pretty bold on their part). They initially called their product Series Mode Protection and had to change the name due to trademark infringement (settled in a lawsuit they lost), so SMP now stand for Series Multistage Protection. Since it's not true Series Mode, they added an MOV at the end of their chain to deal with the residual surges. I agree it doesn't compare to ZeroSurge or SurgeX SM/ASM products (not all SurgeX branded products are Series Mode)

I too have talked to Jim a number of times over the years and he has been very helpful. He is easy to talk to and makes time (which also surprised me). I thought his reply was spot on and not negative but to a reader it would depend on where you stand on certain technologies. To reach SurgeX try contacting them on Facebook.

I suspected that. In my research, Ive found shills from Furman posting negative reviews on both Zerosurge and SurgeX products on Amazon, literally copied and pasted and recommending the Furman pst-8.

They literally copy paste the review and change zero surge for surgex. Thats pretty low that Furman resorts to this. It should tell you how much better surgex and zerosurge products are in comparison if they feel the need to do this.

I play guitar and Furman racks are “holy grail” and overhyped and over recommended by musicians. They’re not cheap either.

In fact, many popular bands use them too like Metallica and the fans follow suit. They big on advertisement that way.

Even so you said the advanced serie mode patent expires in 2025. That may change the game, because Furman, and possibly Triplite and other companies may enter that territory, thus potentially making zerosurge and surgex reconsider their pricing model especially surgex

Their products are great but the prices new are high. Only three top dogs have been dominating that territory surgex, zerosurge and brickwall hence their prices, if the patent expires and the underdogs enter the business, prices may change to compete

The patent expiring is the best for the consumer tbh

 

[Pancreas]

 

[T0paz]

I have a Tesla Powerwall, AFCI breakers and the aforementioned products.

I admit I like the Furman since they have been the most sensitive with their over voltage protection which triggers at 137V. Annoying since it requires a manual power cycle to reset.

But that is a slow over voltage.

The series mode is needed when you have 6000V going in and your probably send electricity faster than the overvoltage relay can click off.

In the link I showed, Furman talks about their Series Mode performance

“The circuit’s measured clamping voltage is 188 Vpk (this is equivalent to 133 Volts RMS, which is only 11% above an optimal 120VAC line) at 6000V/3000A input”

BUT, what happens if 7000V goes in? 10000V? Higher amps?

That’s where the MOV sacrifices itself to protect the downstream challenges.

House wiring can withstand up to 6000 Volts, 3000 Amps. Anything higher and it vaporizes and one would have bigger issues to deal with i.e. a possible loss of their home to fire, so a Type 3 SPD of any kind will not do anything.

The Advanced Series Mode (ASM) from SurgeX has 0 let through voltage.

Furman/Panamax copied & modified an expired Series Mode patent that used an iron core inductor which can saturate. They had to modify the size of their inductor since they could not get the one used by SurgeX, so their inductor saturates a lot faster. They were still getting surge energy passed their "copy" and put an MOV in place at the end, but also shut their surge protector down as early as they could to protect the MOV which still results in returns they have to deal with. If they were able to fully copy the current design (which is still protected by patents), they would have no need for an MOV.

Many SurgeX devices with ASM also include their Catastrophic Over/Under Voltage Protection circuitry. Regular Series Mode is great. The surge energy that is left is well within the AC voltage coming out of the wall and is no longer a threat.

A layered approach consisting of a Whole House SPD uses MOV's for protection and it's a great place for an MOV because the PATH to the EARTH is very short compared to house wiring within a home. The problem with a Type 2 SPD is that it will pass at least 650 volts at the device and up to an additional 25 Volts for each inch of wiring to a breaker. A typical installation uses 18 inches, meaning 1100 Volts of surge energy still gets into the house and while some devices may be able to deal with it, many will not. Type 3 SPD's which divert the surge give the surge a new life and a chance of doing more damage. At these levels the damage may not be immediate, but it is cumulative which often results in a shortened lifespan. Those who replace their gear often may not even be aware of the issue or care.

 

[Pancreas]

So protection at the meter is the best?

 

[T0paz]

So protection at the meter is the best?

Theoretically you'll have the least amount of let through for external surges i.e. around 500-600 Volts for a Type 1 Whole House SPD which is installed by your utility company. If you opt for a Type 2 which can be installed by an electrician or yourself (if it is in your comfort level) on the load side of your mains panel, like the Eaton CHSPT2ULTRA which will let through 650 Volts at the device and an additional 25 Volts per inch of lead length to a dedicated breaker (for maximum protection) but it'll still let through 1100+ Volts of surge energy. Either way local Type 3 SPD's completes the layered approach.

 

[T0paz]

The individual is misinformed about the technology that he believes is the same (which it is not). It's known that Furman copied an expired Series Mode patent and modified the design shrinking the size of several components and as a result not being "true series mode" and having to deal with additional surge energy. Does he work for Furman? Does he own a Furman product, or one from SurgeX, ZeroSurge or Brickwall? I ignore these types of reviews which appear word for word on many forums. A shill? Who knows?

 

[Pancreas]

The individual is misinformed about the technology that he believes is the same (which it is not). It's known that Furman copied an expired Series Mode patent and modified the design shrinking the size of several components and as a result not being "true series mode" and having to deal with additional surge energy. Does he work for Furman? Does he own a Furman product, or one from SurgeX, ZeroSurge or Brickwall? I ignore these types of reviews which appear word for word on many forums. A shill? Who knows?

Are this guy Always-learning? I went to wirecutter where they recommend the Furman to pst-8 (probably got paid to recommend) and was reading the comment section lol

 

[T0paz]

I went to wirecutter where they recommend the Furman to pst-8 (probably got paid to recommend) and was reading the comment section lol

I did a google search on wirecutter and they appear to offer a lot of recommendations on a slew of consumer products, but I don't know how they come to their conclusions. I don't know how well they test products or how they draw their conclusions.

 

[Pancreas]

I did a google search on wirecutter and they appear to offer a lot of recommendations on a slew of consumer products, but I don't know how they come to their conclusions. I don't know how well they test products or how they draw their conclusions.

I'm sure they get paid to place certain products at the top of the recommendations.

I wouldn't be surprised if they actually receive those products for free. Either way, I never trusted their recommendation, I'd rather go on forums or reddit to see what real people have to say