Topping preamp

[JohnYang1997]

disappointing but understood

If you don't want specific, it will be this year.

 

[ririt]

If you don't want specific, it will be this year.

Thanks this is what I was expecting

 

[Dave O.]

Thank you for the quick reply. When used with A90, will it be possible to also drive external single ended amp? Can the volume on the A90 be bypassed in favor of the preamp's remote volume?

 

[JohnYang1997]

Thank you for the quick reply. When used with A90, will it be possible to also drive external single ended amp? Can the volume on the A90 be bypassed in favor of the preamp's remote volume?

1, yes
2, yes, just turn the volume up and set the gain to mid.

 

[jruser]

Will it have black and silver options?

Want to order an A90 and D90 now, but want to make sure they'll match the Pre90 in color

 

[JohnYang1997]

Will it have black and silver options?

Want to order an A90 and D90 now, but want to make sure they'll match the Pre90 in color

yes

 

[VeerK]

yes

will it be possible to connect a90 d90 and a speaker amp to the pre90

 

[mafelba]

I desperately need a trigger on the preamp. Any chance the Topping preamp will have one? TIA

 

[VMAT4]

I desperately need a trigger on the preamp. Any chance the Topping preamp will have one? TIA

The Niles Audio CS12V current sensing universal outlet/trigger can be found on eBay.

 

[restorer-john]

The problem is that such boxes if they exist get panned on sites like this because they didn't measure as well as a $10 dongle which didn't have any of that. Even if no one can hear the difference. Until the evaluations and ratings get some weight for convenience and features, the incentive is to strip down.

This is absolutely true.

We've gone from fully integrated high performance amplifiers with phono stages, preamplifier, tone controls, filters, power amplifiers, gain controls, speaker and multiple source switching with an inbuilt D/A converter in the 1990s, to putting every functional block in a separate box in the interests of optimizing each individual part.

Trouble is, nobody tests the entire system as a whole and putting together a partially decent audio system costs way more and ends up a disparate bunch of cheap, cobbled together boxes instead of one perfectly designed single unit.

I'd be far more impressed with an integrated amplifier with all the above functions and with SOTA performance than yet another tiny box that does just one thing. It's a joke that an "input expander" with a dedicated umbilical to a preamp is even given a moment's thought. Just make the products big enough in the first place. i.e. Plan ahead.

 

[JohnYang1997]

This is absolutely true.

We've gone from fully integrated high performance amplifiers with phono stages, preamplifier, tone controls, filters, power amplifiers, gain controls, speaker and multiple source switching with an inbuilt D/A converter in the 1990s, to putting every functional block in a separate box in the interests of optimizing each individual part.

Trouble is, nobody tests the entire system as a whole and putting together a partially decent audio system costs way more and ends up a disparate bunch of cheap, cobbled together boxes instead of one perfectly designed single unit.

I'd be far more impressed with an integrated amplifier with all the above functions and with SOTA performance than yet another tiny box that does just one thing. It's a joke that an "input expander" with a dedicated umbilical to a preamp is even given a moment's thought. Just make the products big enough in the first place. i.e. Plan ahead.

It's funny you say that 'It's a joke that an "input expander" with a dedicated umbilical to a preamp is even given a moment's thought.' I would say don't assume anything. Let me ask you how long can you plan ahead for? 2 years? The existence of the expander is also went through many sessions of discussions. I would say for the most part people don't need it. It's basically suggested by Wolfx700 that some of the high end preamps have many inputs. Instead of making a huge unit that only a fraction of people need, why not just make an expander. And instead of letting user use 3rd party switcher, why not just design a unit that works with the preamp itself so the remote can work properly with it.

 

[raif71]

One usecase for this preamp is when the old Topping A50 (without preamp) is connected to this preamp (and the preamp to the active speakers) to give volume control. Of course, the A50 will have to be off during this time. Right?

 

[restorer-john]

It's funny you say that 'It's a joke that an "input expander" with a dedicated umbilical to a preamp is even given a moment's thought.' I would say don't assume anything. Let me ask you how long can you plan ahead for? 2 years? The existence of the expander is also went through many sessions of discussions. I would say for the most part people don't need it. It's basically suggested by Wolfx700 that some of the high end preamps have many inputs. Instead of making a huge unit that only a fraction of people need, why not just make an expander. And instead of letting user use 3rd party switcher, why not just design a unit that works with the preamp itself so the remote can work properly with it.

The product is 222mm wide. It's just tiny. Why not just double the height and add a whole row of connectors? Call it the A-90x2.

The standard for full size HiFi gear was 420-440mm. Pioneer was 420mm, Sony, Sansui were 430mm Yamaha, Denon 435mm, Akai 440mm. They could all stack together. They all had space for plenty of inputs, outputs and future expansion. Expansion went vertically when they ran out of lateral space. Witness the AVRs that were a foot tall with hundreds of connectors.

In the interests of "minimalism", you've lost the ability for flexibility and facility. Audiophiles always end up plugging more stuff together, be in now or in the future. The better the gear, the more sources you want to use with it.

It will go full circle, just like it has done several times in the last 60+ years. The very first HiFi was monoblock amplifiers, preamplifiers, and source components. Then in the 60s along came "integrated" amplifiers. Then in the 70s, integrating the tuner and pursuing high power, low THD started a receiver power/performance race. Then in the 80s, integrateds devolved into high performance pre/power combos again. Then D/A's in the preamps in the 90s. Then surround. Phew. It goes on and on.

The cycle of a pile of disparate mini separates is almost over IMO. Witness the pictures of random heaps of non-matching "desktop" stuff you see in this and other forums. It's kids' stuff. No mature audiophile with money to spend and a nice house wants things that look more at home in mom's basement. SOTA integrated and SOTA D/A equipped amplifiers/streamers with multiple inputs are going to be the space saver and money savers once again.

Imagine if Topping designed a SOTA all in one product that had styling cues from B&O and all the flexibilty of true audiophile gear? Aspirational, stylish, a decent size that doesn't look like a toy and was premium priced.

Just my 2c.

 

[mafelba]

It's funny you say that 'It's a joke that an "input expander" with a dedicated umbilical to a preamp is even given a moment's thought.' I would say don't assume anything. Let me ask you how long can you plan ahead for? 2 years? The existence of the expander is also went through many sessions of discussions. I would say for the most part people don't need it. It's basically suggested by Wolfx700 that some of the high end preamps have many inputs. Instead of making a huge unit that only a fraction of people need, why not just make an expander. And instead of letting user use 3rd party switcher, why not just design a unit that works with the preamp itself so the remote can work properly with it.

I think that is a brilliant idea. I for one need 1 input and I'll bet i'm not alone. One of the considerations for me not buying the Benchmark DAC3 which serves as a preamp is that I feel like I am paying for a lot of stuff (inputs) I don't need.

 

[typericey]

@restorer-john my guess is Topping wanted to maximize the enclosure tooling of the A90/D90. Not the most economical to create another enclosure that is twice as high, or twice as wide for that matter. Also, these products are targeted to the desktop/headphone crowd, hence their size. The ones who plug their D90 to loudspeaker systems (like myself) is a minority. Perhaps another driver for tiny components is majority of the target market live in smaller homes i.e. apartments and condos and not bungalows with a 2 car garage, family room and backyard. This is also why most people are into head-fi or at most, bookshelf speakers. My GenXer self thinks it would be cool to have an imaginary Topping mini compo stack, with a multi-input preamp, DAC, streamer, and Class D mono-blocks, with the D90's width and depth, coupled with bookshelf speakers.

All that being said, I personally feel that the expander makes little sense, and that a preamp with one or 2 inputs isn't for everyone.

And my general message to chi-fi manufacturers: be open to feedback and recommendation from the community. Brands that listen to customer feedback are often the most successful.

 

[Vasr]

The standard for full size HiFi gear was 420-440mm. Pioneer was 420mm, Sony, Sansui were 430mm Yamaha, Denon 435mm, Akai 440mm. They could all stack together. They all had space for plenty of inputs, outputs and future expansion. Expansion went vertically when they ran out of lateral space. Witness the AVRs that were a foot tall with hundreds of connectors.

In the interests of "minimalism", you've lost the ability for flexibility and facility. Audiophiles always end up plugging more stuff together, be in now or in the future. The better the gear, the more sources you want to use with it.

I am not disagreeing with the points in your post but I think this is more of a desktop audio "silent listening" vs "entertainment system room music" cultural difference.

There is a significant market for desktop based audio for playing through headphones. These used to be rather compromised before. But it seems to have had a bigger resurgence since the IEM modules took off for smartphones increasing the market for silent listening. People that want to do serious/critical listening have been gravitating towards HPs leading to a huge growth in that market.

I would say at least 50% of the people in these forums are in that market. Note that there is seldom need for a full-blown pre-amp in this market with typically a single content source a PC or a streamer. Room EQ and such aren't that critical or useful when you are using headphones (but tone balance via EQ is). So, you don't need much in this chain. Some of the discussions I have had here indicate that some people's concept of audio is just a streamer going to a headphone amp. Nothing else exists or necessary!

Space has always been limited in this market segment. Schiit, Topping, SMSL, etc., primarily cater to this market. BUT...

The performance of the DACs have become good enough that some people have started to use these for their "entertainment system" stack. The entertainment stack industry went into mass-market AVR or very expensive integrated or separates and these offer a very nice budget entry point (so far) in the sub $1000 market.

I agree that they look like a geek basement setup in most cases (just look at the pictures posted in SBAF who only seem to use these) when used in an entertainment center but the lower price range is attractive.

So when Topping does expanders, the size is part of the DNA and dictates function. That may change as they go up the value chain as miniDSP recently did with SHD.

 

[mafelba]

All that being said, I personally feel that the expander makes little sense, and that a preamp with one or 2 inputs isn't for everyone.

Of course a preamp constrained to 1 or 2 inputs isn't for everyone, but you are forgetting that the number of inputs would be expandable.

 

[typericey]

Of course a preamp constrained to 1 or 2 inputs isn't for everyone, but you are forgetting that the number of inputs would be expandable.

I honestly want to understand what kind of user Topping is targeting with a two input preamp. How different is it from an A90?

Personally, I need a two-input Preamp with a display showing the level in supersize font. Input 1 (XLR) for the D90 and input 2 (RCA) for a phono pre. Then the two outputs will be for the amp (XLR) and sub (RCA). I don't need a headphone amp. This is why I feel the Topping preamp would suit my needs. But my requirements are very specific and I'm not sure if a lot of people have similar setups to warrant Topping to create this preamp.

I can actually just get a Schiit Freya S and call it a day. Superb measurements in Amir's review and similar (perhaps lower) price vs. Topping's. Plus the "full size" form factor that I want. But Schiit is nearly impossible to get in this part of the globe.

 

[mafelba]

I honestly want to understand what kind of user Topping is targeting with a two input preamp. How different is it from an A90?

What if you have a TV optical out (with associated connections, DVD, game console) and have one other input (e.g., a DAC or a music streamer)? A preamp would be perfect for this. One place to do switching and volume control. I would guess that a lot of people have this setup. Don't know many people with tuners, cds, tapes. Lots of people also with dedicated 2 channel systems and don't want surround and 5 and 7 channel receivers. For people who want to stay with 2 channel systems and want to run their TVs and associated connections through that system, most DACs with volume will not suffice. The Benchmark DAC3 is perfect for me because it basically is a preamp DAC, but I wonder how much I'm paying for those many inputs that I don't need (I only need optical).

I can actually just get a Schiit Freya S and call it a day. Superb measurements in Amir's review and similar (perhaps lower) price vs. Topping's. Plus the "full size" form factor that I want. But Schiit is nearly impossible to get in this part of the globe.

I was looking at the Freya+ as a solution, but just can't deal with the aluminum/silver finish and I hear the remote volume implementation is not good enough to prevent one from easily going past the intended loudness. Also, I read that it gets pretty hot when in tube mode.

 

[JohnYang1997]

The product is 222mm wide. It's just tiny. Why not just double the height and add a whole row of connectors? Call it the A-90x2.

The standard for full size HiFi gear was 420-440mm. Pioneer was 420mm, Sony, Sansui were 430mm Yamaha, Denon 435mm, Akai 440mm. They could all stack together. They all had space for plenty of inputs, outputs and future expansion. Expansion went vertically when they ran out of lateral space. Witness the AVRs that were a foot tall with hundreds of connectors.

In the interests of "minimalism", you've lost the ability for flexibility and facility. Audiophiles always end up plugging more stuff together, be in now or in the future. The better the gear, the more sources you want to use with it.

It will go full circle, just like it has done several times in the last 60+ years. The very first HiFi was monoblock amplifiers, preamplifiers, and source components. Then in the 60s along came "integrated" amplifiers. Then in the 70s, integrating the tuner and pursuing high power, low THD started a receiver power/performance race. Then in the 80s, integrateds devolved into high performance pre/power combos again. Then D/A's in the preamps in the 90s. Then surround. Phew. It goes on and on.

The cycle of a pile of disparate mini separates is almost over IMO. Witness the pictures of random heaps of non-matching "desktop" stuff you see in this and other forums. It's kids' stuff. No mature audiophile with money to spend and a nice house wants things that look more at home in mom's basement. SOTA integrated and SOTA D/A equipped amplifiers/streamers with multiple inputs are going to be the space saver and money savers once again.

Imagine if Topping designed a SOTA all in one product that had styling cues from B&O and all the flexibilty of true audiophile gear? Aspirational, stylish, a decent size that doesn't look like a toy and was premium priced.

Just my 2c.

I'm not against all in one. But to ask anyone to accept unnecessarily large products is just plain impractical. Don't talk on the past. If your products are large it will cost loads to manufacturer and loads more to ship. And it will scare away many consumer to even consider the product.
Also mind that this doesn't mean larger product isn't possible. It will just placed differently and be used for the product that actually needs it. We need to have from small to large, with different kinds of trade offs, different features to fulfill different people's needs. A90/D90 is already a bit too large for myself. I prefer L30+E30 size or somewhere in between.