Topping DM7 8-Channel DAC Review

[Hmast]

I agree drivers and software quality is critical to me too. The point is I'm having a hard time evaluating Topping's software quality here. If my understanding is correct it looks like Topping's only providing a low level driver and you should reside on Windows' settings or a 3rd party software to deal with surround channel management, am I right?

Compressor, EQ and VSTs isn't what I need. All I need is a way to make sure it's rock steady and Windows will always handle it as a 7.1 device i.e. never messing up with what chanel should be left or right or LFE or back left, etc. in the surround signal.

For example, is Topping providing a software to map the output of the DM7 to a "7.1 setup map"? Or is it just "hey, here are 8 chanels, feed them with what you wish"?

 

[Atanasi]

For example, is Topping providing a software to map the output of the DM7 to a "7.1 setup map"? Or is it just "hey, here are 8 chanels, feed them with what you wish"?

A part of the channel mappings is included in the firmware, and a USB descriptor dumper can show it. Maybe someone who has DM7 could try a tool like Thesycon's descriptor dumper and attach the results here.

 

[Groom]

A part of the channel mappings is included in the firmware, and a USB descriptor dumper can show it. Maybe someone who has DM7 could try a tool like Thesycon's descriptor dumper and attach the results here.

Here you go!

 

[Groom]

MOTU Ultralite mk5 could be used for some of the same purposes.

The Motu 8A is no match soundwise. The Ultralite MK5 would be the best option, even if it doesn´t sound as good as the DM7 or the DX7 Pro ;-).

 

[Hmast]

Here you go!

Thanks!

I guess @Atanasi can tell what is supposed to be reassuring in that dump. I can't find anything related to surround or central or left, etc.

 

[Hmast]

By the way @Groom, would you have a screenshot of the interface showing an ability to map each of the outputs to a specific surround channel?

 

[Sokel]

The Motu 8A is no match soundwise. The Ultralite MK5 would be the best option, even if it doesn´t sound as good as the DM7 or the DX7 Pro ;-).

What do you mean "soundwise"?
Motu 8 has 110db SINAD according to specs,you think you could distinguish it from a 80db SINAD or a 130db SINAD?
I think someone has to do the Klippel test.

 

[Trell]

MOTU Ultralite mk5 could be used for some of the same purposes.

Sure, but apparently on Windows the channels are presented as stereo pairs and not as a 5.1 or 7.1, according to the link below. This might or might not be an issue. For the OP in that thread it was and he ended up with a second hand RME audio interface released in 2006 that still has current drivers for Windows.

Are there any 8 channel audio interfaces that work as a 7.1 device natively in windows?

Hello guys, This has been bugging me for a while, and I've already returned devices from UA and Motu because their tech support lied to me. I'm looking for an audio interface that has at least 6, but ideally 8 or more analogue outputs, that will appear in windows as a true multichannel device...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Atanasi]

Thanks!

I guess @Atanasi can tell what is supposed to be reassuring in that dump. I can't find anything related to surround or central or left, etc.

It seems that channel mappings are not specified in the firmware.

0x08 bNrChannels (8 channels)
0x00000000 bmChannelConfig
0x0B iChannelNames

This means there are 8 channels, the channel config is zero, which means no specified positions. Channel names start from the index 0B:

0x0B 0x0409 "Analogue 1"
0x0C 0x0409 "Analogue 2"
0x0D 0x0409 "Analogue 3"
0x0E 0x0409 "Analogue 4"
0x0F 0x0409 "Analogue 5"
0x10 0x0409 "Analogue 6"
0x11 0x0409 "Analogue 7"
0x12 0x0409 "Analogue 8"

So the channels are named from Analogue 1 to Analogue 8. The output terminal is specified as Speaker:

0x0301 wTerminalType (Speaker)

This may affect how audio drivers use the device. Another possibility could be something like 0x0603 (Line connector).

 

[Atanasi]

Sure, but apparently on Windows the channels are presented as stereo pairs and not as a 5.1 or 7.1, according to the link below. This might or might not be an issue. For the OP in that thread it was and he ended up with a second hand RME audio interface released in 2006 that still has current drivers for Windows.

Are there any 8 channel audio interfaces that work as a 7.1 device natively in windows?

Hello guys, This has been bugging me for a while, and I've already returned devices from UA and Motu because their tech support lied to me. I'm looking for an audio interface that has at least 6, but ideally 8 or more analogue outputs, that will appear in windows as a true multichannel device...

www.audiosciencereview.com

If it is essential to have 7.1 WASAPI devices, the user would have to install virtual WASAPI devices that loop back to ASIO. For example, VoiceMeeter can do it. However, it won't be as stable as native drivers and increases latency. Or, if MOTU works with class-compliant drivers, one could try Microsoft generic drivers and see if they support 7.1 as a single device.

 

[Trell]

If it is essential to have 7.1 WASAPI devices, the user would have to install virtual WASAPI devices that loop back to ASIO. For example, VoiceMeeter can do it. However, it won't be as stable as native drivers and increases latency. Or, if MOTU works with class-compliant drivers, one could try Microsoft generic drivers and see if they support 7.1 as a single device.

It’s just a potential issue to be aware of that might or might not have a workaround, depending on the use case.

As for class compliance MOTU does not support that on Windows.

 

[192kbps]

I was wondering, is there any alternative to this DAC on the market? I mean for someone who needs to plug-in a 7.1 setup consisting in active XLR speakers.

I guess some very professional gear can do this but what about <$1000 alternatives?

ESI - GIGAPORT eX

GIGAPORT eX is the perfect device for 7.1 surround sound applications as well as for DJs. Due to the pre-listening function...

www.esi-audio.com

 

[juliangst]

I was wondering, is there any alternative to this DAC on the market? I mean for someone who needs to plug-in a 7.1 setup consisting in active XLR speakers.

I guess some very professional gear can do this but what about <$1000 alternatives?

If you are on Mac you could use loopback to combine multiple DACs into one mutlichannel DAC.
But if you just need 8 channels with balanced outs it's cheaper to get the DM7 than 4 balanced DACs

 

[charlielaub]

I was wondering, is there any alternative to this DAC on the market? I mean for someone who needs to plug-in a 7.1 setup consisting in active XLR speakers.

I guess some very professional gear can do this but what about <$1000 alternatives?

I always advise those who just want to test the waters to buy a Behringer UMC1820. It costs about $250 new and gives you 10 analog outputs. It's head and shoulders above other Behringer interfaces, which deservedly have a poor reputation. It's noisier than some interfaces, so don't use it with a very sensitive driver like a CD+horn. Otherwise, not bad at all. I use one every day as part of a computer based DSP crossover system. I own a DM7 and have experience using other such units (Presonus 1818vsl, Focusrite Scarlett 6i6, etc.).

 

[edechamps]

Sure, but apparently on Windows the channels are presented as stereo pairs and not as a 5.1 or 7.1, according to the link below. This might or might not be an issue. For the OP in that thread it was and he ended up with a second hand RME audio interface released in 2006 that still has current drivers for Windows.

Are there any 8 channel audio interfaces that work as a 7.1 device natively in windows?

Hello guys, This has been bugging me for a while, and I've already returned devices from UA and Motu because their tech support lied to me. I'm looking for an audio interface that has at least 6, but ideally 8 or more analogue outputs, that will appear in windows as a true multichannel device...

www.audiosciencereview.com

I asked a similar question about 18 months ago as well, there are some suggestions in that thread too.

With regard to the Topping DM7 specifically, I think one important question is whether it's possible to use it as a 5.1/7.1 device in Windows using the standard USB Audio Class 2 driver from Microsoft only, without having to install Topping's driver. To me using the generic Microsoft UAC2 driver is preferable because (1) it is more reliable and better tested than third party drivers and (2) is is guaranteed to keep working and get improvements in future Windows versions. I asked this question previously in this thread but I didn't see any answer. It would be great if a Topping DM7 owner could try switching the driver to the standard Microsoft UAC2 driver in the Device Manager and see what happens (is it still seen as a functional 5.1/7.1 audio device?).

 

[192kbps]

I asked a similar question about 18 months ago as well, there are some suggestions in that thread too.

With regard to the Topping DM7 specifically, I think one important question is whether it's possible to use it as a 5.1/7.1 device in Windows using the standard USB Audio Class 2 driver from Microsoft only, without having to install Topping's driver. To me using the generic Microsoft UAC2 driver is preferable because (1) it is more reliable and better tested than third party drivers and (2) is is guaranteed to keep working and get improvements in future Windows versions. I asked this question previously in this thread but I didn't see any answer. It would be great if a Topping DM7 owner could try switching the driver to the standard Microsoft UAC2 driver in the Device Manager and see what happens (is it still seen as a functional 5.1/7.1 audio device?).

As far as I know, Windows can support it as long as there are no more than 8 channels. Don't need any drivers.

 

[edechamps]

As far as I know, Windows can support it as long as there are no more than 8 channels. Don't need any drivers.

I would normally agree with that, but Topping specifically states on their product page that you have to install their driver for multichannel support on Windows:

It would be great if a DM7 owner could actually check whether that's actually the case or not in reality. Given there is no such requirement for Mac, it could be that the DM7 has compatibility issues with the Microsoft UAC2 driver or something. That would be a shame

 

[Trell]

I would normally agree with that, but Topping specifically states on their product page that you have to install their driver for multichannel support on Windows:

View attachment 267060

It would be great if a DM7 owner could actually check whether that's actually the case or not in reality. Given there is no such requirement for Mac, it could be that the DM7 has compatibility issues with the Microsoft UAC2 driver or something. That would be a shame

So no native multi-channel support on Windows.

 

[Hmast]

If you are on Mac you could use loopback to combine multiple DACs into one mutlichannel DAC.
But if you just need 8 channels with balanced outs it's cheaper to get the DM7 than 4 balanced DACs

Honestly I don't know what to expect from balanced outputs because I currently use unalanced ones straight to the XLR input of my Genelecs and I have absolutely no noise issue. So... not sure about the benefit of balanced ones. Yet... if I buy something, let's just get balanced outputs as expected with premium speakers.

 

[Hmast]

I always advise those who just want to test the waters to buy a Behringer UMC1820. It costs about $250 new and gives you 10 analog outputs. It's head and shoulders above other Behringer interfaces, which deservedly have a poor reputation. It's noisier than some interfaces, so don't use it with a very sensitive driver like a CD+horn. Otherwise, not bad at all. I use one every day as part of a computer based DSP crossover system. I own a DM7 and have experience using other such units (Presonus 1818vsl, Focusrite Scarlett 6i6, etc.).

Are you able to hear a big difference in audio quality between the DM7 and the UMC1820?

Also, can you stream 7.1 audio from movies using that Behringer on Windows?