Topping DM7 8-Channel DAC Review

[juliangst]

there are some options starting from 650, for example

• https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=42843

I use 12" V2, balanced

The monoprice together with the XTZ edge are the only options that come to my mind and both are ported.

People could build a sealed sub and use a PA amp that usually comes with XLR ins but apart from that I don’t know of many alternatives.

Is using XLR to RCA (with Pin 3 floating) dangerous to use or will it just have a few dB less SINAD compared to XLR?

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Well then my question is rather, do all the 4 use cases output PCM sound? I guess « yes » but I’m not 100% sure about that.

Dunno. Depends on how, and on what, you are playing them.

 

[radeon]

Today I tested comparing the DM7 with a Marantz 7706. Both units were fed the exact same data, Iron Man 1 in TrueHD. For playback software I used VLC running on a MacBook Pro with Rogue Amoeba Loopback in order to assign the multichannel audio to the correct DAC channel. If you are running multiple DACs I believe its possible to slave the clocks to a master clock in the MIDI settings of MacOS's CoreAudio API. The DM7 was connected via USB with software decoding happening on the computer, and 8 channels of PCM being sent to the DM7. And the Marantz was connected via HDMI to bitstream TrueHD from the computer to the AVR.

I had assumed that since Marantz AVRs are very poorly rated on this site, and the DM7 is very highly rated, that if I replaced my Marantz with the DM7 and could figure out the decoding software, I would get much better sound quality. It seems to not be the case at all, at least in my tests.

The sound quality of the DM7 is not bad at all, and for the price, it's pretty amazing to be able to perform similarly to the Marantz, but I think the Marantz is still quite a bit better, especially in higher frequency sounds.

I'll be returning the DM7 and sticking it out with my Marantz until something else comes on the market. If this test had gone well, I was prepared to invest in an Arvus H2-4D to get Atmos, and maybe ~3x DM7s, but alas I will keep the Marantz.

So, anecdotally, it seems to me that it's quite simple to decode 7.1 TrueHD via DM7, especially if you use MacOS, however, the sound quality is not any better than using a classic AVR, even one that is poorly reviewed by Amir like the 7705/7706.

Let me know if anyone has any ideas how I could have done the test differently.

 

[Hmast]

It's surprising as you say since the DM7 shows near perfect results.

I would be curious to see if the Marantz appears to be better in higher frenquency because of:

1) your habits (it always takes time to get used to another sound, when I moved from PSI to Genelec, I was a bit confused and I didn't really know if the sound was better at first... then 1 month later I'm selling my PSIs...).
2) your ears: maybe you need more treble, or less, depending on your own sensitivity to trebles (tastes, age...)
3) wrong ABX conditions
4) simply a matter of taste

As I'm discovering Amir's review of the 7705, it looks like most of the audible issues with it come from noise. It still shows decent results for common conditions when watching a film. The point is ~2800 EUR for such a preamp seems to be related to Marantz' marketing budget and only this. They show superb photos of their capacitors with golden printings on them, it says a lot

Maybe our ears, even trained ones, can't really cope with all these perfect DACs with 120db of dynamic range et very flat response... it may be 20 years since all improvments cannot be heard because it's part of a non-human capability. And then maybe Marantz is enough (if we take the noise issue away).

Even if I had 3000 EUR for the Marantz, I guess I'm sticking with the DM7 purchase project at this time.

 

[helnorsk]

-are you sure you were bitstreaming via hdmi and pcm via usb?;
-Marantz's room acoustic correction must also be considered;
-why don't you try using mpc-be with external audio filters (LAV FILTERS);
-certainly the output characteristics of a preamp could be more compatible with the inputs of power amps;
-maybe you are used to that kind of sound by now or you simply like it better

 

[Hmast]

There's a high chance of having Marantz' DSP applying effects / treatments even when every "mode" seem disabled.
And yes, if Audyssey EQ was applied it is for sure wrong to compare with the DM7.

For sure the DM7 will never apply any effect or treatment to the sound unlike any AVR. So if one needs Dolby effects, DSP improvements, EQ etc. what he needs is an AVR, not a DAC.

 

[juliangst]

I have a few questions about this surround sound setup on MacOS.
I know that MacOS has some fixed surround setups in the midi setup like 5.1 or 5.1.2.

Is it possible to map the center channel to left and right using loopback in case I want to use a 4.1 setup or 4.2.2 ?

And is it possible to correct this whole setup using Dirac Multichannel?

 

[radeon]

I'll try to reply to everyone without quoting...

-I had a few other people(industry experts) try and they all agreed, so probably not preference or ears, but its certainly not impossible that there was bias. Take my findings with a grain of salt, like I said, this is just an anecdote

-No using any Marantz DSPs or Audyssey. There is DSP, but it's later down the pipe after the dacs. so both systems are going through the same DSP.

-for the comment of "are you sure you were bitstreaming via hdmi and pcm via usb?" I'm not sure how it could have "accidentally" be done another way. Can you describe me one scenario where im not bitstreaming and not using pcm via usb and still able to get correct multichannel sound?

-Can you describe to me exactly what I should be using with MPC-BE? Specifically which (LAV FILTERS) do you want me to use and how do I set this up? I dont have a clear understanding what exactly this does that VLC does not. MPC is dead and has not been updated for a long time. I highly doubt MPC is going to play back TrueHD at all.

-Yes, you can map any channel to anything you want in MacOS. I specifically setup 7.1.4 Atmos, but I only had one DM7, so I only used the base 7.1TrueHD track, not using the atmos object channels at all. You can do the exact same thing in windows using Dolby Reference Player. I don't know about DIRAC, i use ashly 24.24 dsp down the line to do the room correction and crossovers manually

However, I will say that IF this system had worked out with better tested sound quality, then I would have gotten rid of the ashly and done the dsp all in software on the mac/PC. this way it would be a digital signal all the way through, until going through the topping DA into the power amps.

The way it works currently is going through an extra DA and AD cycle from the dsp..... but looks like I will be sticking to this solution for now, as it has the best sound quality to my ears.

 

[helnorsk]

One scenario? Sorry I didn't remember that you had already made sure of that

just a quick test
Install the latest mpc-be and the latest lav filters all x64 version (if you can)
In the player settings under external filters select them from the list and give them priority
In playback the icons appear (bottom right bar in windows) and there you can select which stream to process and which to transmit in bitstream (ac3 dts and hires versions)
Don't forget to select 'enable system tray icon'.

 

[Groom]

I´m just evaluating this dac in Win10 and can´t find an option to change the levels of the individual outs.
I´m wondering if any of you found a way to do this?
Both driver and Asio installed, latest firmware.


Thank you!

 

[dartinbout]

If the firmware is up to date, then press M on the remote. It takes you to the individual channel volume interface, on the unit's screen.

 

[Groom]

If the firmware is up to date, then press M on the remote. It takes you to the individual channel volume interface, on the unit's screen.

Thank you - will try that!

As you seem to be an expert on Topping topics, did you manage to use more than one Topping dac with a win10 machine?
When I try to use both, DX 7 Pro and DM7, the driver / control app let´s me only choose one of them...

 

[dartinbout]

Thank you - will try that!

As you seem to be an expert on Topping topics, did you manage to use more than one Topping dac with a win10 machine?
When I try to use both, DX 7 Pro and DM7, the driver / control app let´s me only choose one of them...

As I added Topping products incrementally, I accidently bypassed the problem. I started with the DX& Pro (not the plus). To achieve DSD 1024 (snickering is permitted) I needed an IIS connector. I added the

KTE SU-2 : Kitsune Tuned Edition – DSD1024 USB Digital Interface . It didn't need the Topping the driver to us this. ​

When I add the DM7, I only had one instance of a Topping USB driver. However when I added a third DAC, I ripped out the exiting Topping driver rebooted, reinstalled the driver and now the Topping GUI has a drop down for both DX7's. Works fine.
I still have on irritation as the DM7 and the DX7's all use the same IT codes. I solved this by plugging all the XLR's into the A90D and EXT90. Viola! A 4 legged Topping beast!

 

[Groom]

Thank you again!

So far it´s working. The only remaining problem is the clocking with my Brooklyn ADC. Unsolvable in win10 so far, so easy on a mac ;-).

The sound of the unit is great, btw. The only downside is a very loud pop when switching the unit off...

 

[Hmast]

I was wondering, is there any alternative to this DAC on the market? I mean for someone who needs to plug-in a 7.1 setup consisting in active XLR speakers.

I guess some very professional gear can do this but what about <$1000 alternatives?

 

[Groom]

I was wondering, is there any alternative to this DAC on the market? I mean for someone who needs to plug-in a 7.1 setup consisting in active XLR speakers.

I guess some very professional gear can do this but what about <$1000 alternatives?

None. There are several pro alternatives but to get into the same ballpark, soundwise you´d have to spend about 4 to 6 times the money (and most likely get a 8 ADCs on top).

 

[Sokel]

None. There are several pro alternatives but to get into the same ballpark, soundwise you´d have to spend about 4 to 6 times the money (and most likely get a 8 ADCs on top).

I don't think you will get any audible difference using this:

MOTU 8A 16x18 Thunderbolt / USB 3.0 Audio Interface with AVB

16-in/18-out Hybrid Thunderbolt/USB 3.0/iOS Audio Interface, 24-bit/192kHz, with AVB Ethernet Connectivity - Mac/PC/iOS

www.sweetwater.com

Yes,you get a gazillion more features but it's about the same price,not X4/X6.

 

[Atanasi]

I was wondering, is there any alternative to this DAC on the market? I mean for someone who needs to plug-in a 7.1 setup consisting in active XLR speakers.

I guess some very professional gear can do this but what about <$1000 alternatives?

MOTU Ultralite mk5 could be used for some of the same purposes.

 

[Hmast]

I don't think you will get any audible difference using this:

MOTU 8A 16x18 Thunderbolt / USB 3.0 Audio Interface with AVB

16-in/18-out Hybrid Thunderbolt/USB 3.0/iOS Audio Interface, 24-bit/192kHz, with AVB Ethernet Connectivity - Mac/PC/iOS

www.sweetwater.com

Yes,you get a gazillion more features but it's about the same price,not X4/X6.

Interesting. I'm sure I wouldn't hear a difference with the topping. I'm going to check what those extra features are. Actually my fear with the Topping is its software suite that seems very much "simple". I know sometimes simple is great, even better than overloaded interfaces with useless crap but I want to make sure I don't miss anything great besides. The topping should to the trick since I'm using GLM and its volume controler + APOEqualizer, but let's see what this MUSE can offer.

 

[Sokel]

Interesting. I'm sure I wouldn't hear a difference with the topping. I'm going to check what those extra features are. Actually my fear with the Topping is its software suite that seems very much "simple". I know sometimes simple is great, even better than overloaded interfaces with useless crap but I want to make sure I don't miss anything great besides. The topping should to the trick since I'm using GLM and its volume controler + APOEqualizer, but let's see what this MUSE can offer.

The way I see it in terms of multiple ins/outs is that experience and mature software matters even more than the hardware itself.
(not that MOTU's or the RME's equivalent hardware are worst quality-wise,quite the opposite,for me they are much better,made for pros)