Topping DM7 8-Channel DAC Review

[mdsimon2]

Your link isn't Convolution.

Ugh, flip the convolution slider from disabled to enabled? As shown just above the speaker setup option in the link.

Michael

 

[jtwrace]

Ugh, flip the convolution slider from disabled to enabled? As shown just above the speaker setup option in the link.

Michael

I do NOT use the speaker setup option. I don't know what else to say.

 

[nsfgp]

Only 2 channel stuff here. But I think it is simply how Topping/etc. adapt the XMOS/ASIO driver and make it their own driver.
My cheapy FX-Audio SQ3 DAC have this adjustment enabled in their FX-Audio driver. See below.

As expected in my E30's Topping driver (V5.3) ... this is disable like we saw above:

Interesting discussion indeed.

 

[mdsimon2]

I do NOT use the speaker setup option. I don't know what else to say.

But you could, right? Or you know just add the gain offset in your convolution filters. I’ve never see someone complain so loudly about something so easily solved.

Michael

 

[jtwrace]

But you could, right? Or you know just add the gain offset in your convolution filters. I’ve never see someone complain so loudly about something so easily solved.

Michael

It's not the correct way to do it for a HW swap. totally wasteful. I'm sure @manisandher would agree.

 

[dualazmak]

Let me finish-up my participation in current "relative gain" discussion here by sharing one of the system diagrams of my present multi-channel setup:

 

[dartinbout]

this is just an interlude of the thread...

We, including myself, often mixed-up "Octo(-pus)" and "Okto(-pus)" !

The marine creature with 8 legs is "octopus", right?
View attachment 220508
Yes, we have no Marianas Trench octopus in this picture

I often misspell by writing "OCTO Research" for "OKTO Research".

As a reminder for myself and all of us, DAC8PRO is the product of "Okto Research".

I consider them both to be 8 legged intelligent beasts of the deep.

 

[dartinbout]

But you could, right? Or you know just add the gain offset in your convolution filters. I’ve never see someone complain so loudly about something so easily solved.

Michael

"Loudly complain"? I thought that was the ASR default voice. I'm amazed there aren't more all caps posts.

 

[Music1969]

Again, how?

Why doesn't your FIR filter already account for gain levels of each driver/speaker ?

Why are you having to do this manually ?

It is very strange

Audiolense XO does this for me (3 way DSP speakers and 2 subs but its the same for 4 or 40 subs)

You only need the remote control of DAC for volume

 

[Music1969]

It's not the correct way to do it for a HW swap. totally wasteful. I'm sure @manisandher would agree.

It is absolutely the BEST way for a hardware swap !

Anything else is sub-optimal

 

[AudioJester]

It's not the correct way to do it for a HW swap. totally wasteful. I'm sure @manisandher would agree.

Iam so confused. How are you channel mapping in Roon to your multichannel dac?
Didnt you get Mitcho to setup your system? He can tell you how to adjust/set each channel volume. It should allready be done though right? I mean if you are using Audiolense generated convoltion filters to a multichannel setup, each channel gain should allready be setup.

 

[Music1969]

Iam so confused.

Despite his tone being that of 100% certainty, I think he is very confused.

He definitely needs to call the guru, Mitch, for advice here

 

[AudioJester]

Despite his tone being that of 100% certainty, I think he is very confused.

He definitely needs to call the guru, Mitch, for advice here

Its a big problem in this thread. All the "experts" criticising this device, when in fact they dont understand what it is or how to use it.

Iam still trying to figure it out. If you do a HW swap (what exactly are you swapping?) you would need new convolution filters with new channel gain settings. You still need to measure to create these? What is wasteful???

 

[Music1969]

Iam still trying to figure it out. If you do a HW swap (what exactly are you swapping?) you would need new convolution filters with new channel gain settings. You still need to measure to create these? What is wasteful???

I use a Focusrite 10 channel interface right now (I'm using 8 channels).

Audiolense spits out the FIR filters with all the correct level and delay adjustments built-in to the convolution fllter files.

If I swap out the Focusrite for this Topping DM7, the room correction doesn't change. The levels and delays between channels doesn't change

There's no need to manually adjust levels. If that's what Audiolense XO or Acourate required (they don't) they would be a hopeless solution

The only level that needs to be adjusted is main volume , with a remote control in the case of the Topping DM7

Changing DAC has not changed the room, so no change in room correction required

 

[AudioJester]

Maybe switching/mixing amps with different gain structures?
Even then would need to measure for correct levels?

 

[Music1969]

Maybe switching/mixing amps with different gain structures?
Even then would need to measure for correct levels?

Yep swapping out 1 or more amps with different gain to current Hypex amps, would be one reason

But as you hinted, you can't just manually adjust one DAC channels level even in that case - need to re-run Audiolense measurement.

 

[the shy]

Not much to see here, topping's nailed performance yet again. Nice that it's avaliable for a fair bit less than the Okto offering.
So boring in a good way

hi！Have you eaten?

 

[mdsimon2]

Yep swapping out 1 or more amps with different gain to current Hypex amps, would be one reason

But as you hinted, you can't just manually adjust one DAC channels level even in that case - need to re-run Audiolense measurement.

No need to re-run the measurement if you know (or can measure) the difference in gain. Although I personally think that managing gain in multiple places (DSP and DAC) is a bad idea and I think it makes more sense to manage in the DSP only as it allows you to understand all of the processing in one place.

Michael

 

[mitchco]

He definitely needs to call the guru, Mitch, for advice here

The issue is "filter insertion loss." If you don’t gain/level match the drivers in a multiway system before DSP correction, then you are potentially adding considerable filter insertion loss, for no good reason other than following a bad practice. Consider one speaker maybe 6 dB higher in SPL compared to all other speakers. AL then needs to drop the level of that speaker by 6 dB and now we have added -6dB to the overall filter insertion loss for no good reason other than the speakers were not level matched (as best as possible) prior to taking the measurement in AL.

Happens all the time. For example, look at the levels in Chris's 7.1.4 Atmos system prior to correction: https://audiophilestyle.com/ca/imme...-of-my-714-immersive-audiophile-system-r1123/

Good luck!

 

[jtwrace]

Why doesn't your FIR filter already account for gain levels of each driver/speaker ?

Why are you having to do this manually ?

It is very strange

Audiolense XO does this for me (3 way DSP speakers and 2 subs but its the same for 4 or 40 subs)

You only need the remote control of DAC for volume

Just to take measurements of each driver you need to have control over gain to level match.

The issue is "filter insertion loss." If you don’t gain/level match the drivers in a multiway system before DSP correction, then you are potentially adding considerable filter insertion loss, for no good reason other than following a bad practice. Consider one speaker maybe 6 dB higher in SPL compared to all other speakers. AL then needs to drop the level of that speaker by 6 dB and now we have added -6dB to the overall filter insertion loss for no good reason other than the speakers were not level matched (as best as possible) prior to taking the measurement in AL.

Happens all the time. For example, look at the levels in Chris's 7.1.4 Atmos system prior to correction: https://audiophilestyle.com/ca/imme...-of-my-714-immersive-audiophile-system-r1123/

Good luck!

Thanks @mitchco! Therefore, my proposed method is far superior as I thought.