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There is something very, very wrong with today’s music

DMill

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I've always found it morbidly amusing the way some people who don't like rap think that out-competing each other in bashing it makes them seem cultured and intellectual.

I've never really liked any rap/hip-hop which wasn't parody but it's popularity does not wound my very soul. ;)
Bashing new music forms is nothing new. My grandmother thought the Stones were a bunch of overamplified dirty druggies. There was crap music 70 years ago too... And a thousand years before that.
 

Koeitje

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I've always found it morbidly amusing the way some people who don't like rap think that out-competing each other in bashing it makes them seem cultured and intellectual.

I've never really liked any rap/hip-hop which wasn't parody but it's popularity does not wound my very soul. ;)
Yeah that's the way to go. Like I really don't give a flying fuck about the Beatles for example, or the Rolling Stones. I don't necessarily find it bad music or anything, just not as interesting. I usually just end up picking albums I like from every genre and skip the rest. Don't get me wrong: there is bad music out there, but you can't write off entire genres.

What do you think about stuff like Donuts or Endtroducing (Instrumental sample based hiphop)?

DOOM has some funny lyrics
What up
To all rappers shut up with ya shuttin up
And keep your shirt on, at least a button up
Yuck, is they rhymers or strippin males?
Outta work jerks since they shut down Chippendales
 
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Jds81

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I've always found it morbidly amusing the way some people who don't like rap think that out-competing each other in bashing it makes them seem cultured and intellectual.

I've never really liked any rap/hip-hop which wasn't parody but it's popularity does not wound my very soul. ;)
So true, on the specific animus.
I wouldnt count yourself out as a fan, as humor is a major part of rap. The best wordsmiths flex out in many directions.
I am not an expert on the genre, but what I have found and bonded with brings me great joy.
 

DMill

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So true, on the specific animus.
I wouldnt count yourself out as a fan, as humor is a major part of rap. The best wordsmiths flex out in many directions.
I am not an expert on the genre, but what I have found and bonded with brings me great joy.
I’d say Eminem has built a career out of it. It seems, for many people, our impressions of what is subjectively good music is imprinted on us as kids. Im guessing a lot of that has to do with what your parents listened to. Then there is generational stuff you hear as you age which defines you and has nostalgia. I don’t need a scientific study to go to a Journey concert and see who’s there. I’m 54 and just try as best as I can to keep an open mind when my 24 year old daughter plays me song. Who knows, maybe you like Kanye and you just didn’t give his vibe a chance.
 

Koeitje

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I’d say Eminem has built a career out of it. It seems, for many people, our impressions of what is subjectively good music is imprinted on us as kids. Im guessing a lot of that has to do with what your parents listened to. Then there is generational stuff you hear as you age which defines you and has nostalgia. I don’t need a scientific study to go to a Journey concert and see who’s there. I’m 54 and just try as best as I can to keep an open mind when my 24 year old daughter plays me song. Who knows, maybe you like Kanye and you just didn’t give his vibe a chance.
I'm not giving Kayne a chance due to his personality, but that is a different story.
 

goat76

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So everyone uses a click track now? And no bands play together in studio now, but they all used to?
Look up some of the "making of" any famous studio album- you just might find out it wasn't a band jamming away. Not saying all, but overdubbing is a real, widely used, and not new thing.
Click track, I dunno, how long did it take someone to record a metronome, pipe it into headphones to keep the drummer on time?
Everyone waits on the drums in studio, it eats time.
Overdubbing is an important thing, it can be crucial for the vocalist to get a good take or even a lot of takes that can be edited together for a much better overall performance. And for a hard part to get right like a guitar solo or something similar, and/or for added instruments that need to be played by some of the musicians already playing another instrument.

I'm all for overdubbing when it's needed as in the above examples. But click tracking every single instrument even though a whole band is available takes away very important musical clues which otherwise will be an important part of the interplay between the musicians. When the full band is playing together and they can both see, feel and hear each other the rhythm comes more naturally and they can get a groove going, either slow it down or play it faster which will give the music more life and the human touch to it.

I think recording "live" in the studio with the full band playing is the best approach for music in almost every shape and form. Almost every time I hear a live recording on the radio, like the John Peel Show or similar, I think it sounds so much better than the official album. Not always better sound-wise, but very often so much better musical-wise when the bands got that jam together. :)
 

Vacceo

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Regarding pop and rock music: I think it was when the click-track recordings started to take over, and when the musicians stopped playing together at the same time as a band on the recordings, this is where the musical pace and feeling died on many records.
Technical ”perfect” with computer programs correcting the beats, then turned out to be less musical, less fun to listen to , and less rythmical.

Rap music is a very primitive music style, where the vocals have been robbed the ability to make tunes. Its a mystery why Its still so popular, and maybe this musicform is one of the enemy of future progress in hifi. This musicstyle make people tone-deaf and should be avoided.
Go for artists that do. I mean, there's plenty on the section of "rock" I listen to, so it's quite possible than on the other subgenres, there are plenty who still play together.

If pop and rock music bring back the melodies and pace again and play together avoiding clicktrack - then we will see a big rise in popularity using hifi. Music should be fun to listen to and If its not - there no meaning of having a good stereo.

Yes - there is something very wrong with todays music.
This album shows what all pop/rock music should sound like:
View attachment 226212
I think Regatta de Blanc is more rounded. I'm partial to Ghost in the Machine not so much for the music but due to the reference to Koestler (i got some papers around his works) and the very dark tone of the album. ;)
 
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goat76

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Go for artists that do. I mean, there's plenty on the section of "rock" I listen to, so it's quite possible than on the other subgenres, there are plenty who still play together.
Yes, every single recording Steve Albini does at his studio Electrical Audio is recorded with the full band playing together, except for the vocals (most of the time) and some overdubs. :)
 

steve59

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Went to a chili peppers concert friday night and I liked the new stuff as well as the old stuff.
 

DMill

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Went to a chili peppers concert friday night and I liked the new stuff as well as the old stuff.
Glad to hear they are still rockin. Saw them very early on and they were as high energy as any band I’ve ever seen.
 

Vacceo

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Testament and Exodus less than a month ago. We still danced the "toxic waltz". :p

But those are oldies, so it was kind of guaranteed. Head of the Demon is a lot more recent and they are one of the freshest takes on Black/Death I have listened in a while.

Sure you guys can add names to the Moon and back.
 

Jds81

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Overdubbing is an important thing, it can be crucial for the vocalist to get a good take or even a lot of takes that can be edited together for a much better overall performance. And for a hard part to get right like a guitar solo or something similar, and/or for added instruments that need to be played by some of the musicians already playing another instrument.

I'm all for overdubbing when it's needed as in the above examples. But click tracking every single instrument even though a whole band is available takes away very important musical clues which otherwise will be an important part of the interplay between the musicians. When the full band is playing together and they can both see, feel and hear each other the rhythm comes more naturally and they can get a groove going, either slow it down or play it faster which will give the music more life and the human touch to it.

I think recording "live" in the studio with the full band playing is the best approach for music in almost every shape and form. Almost every time I hear a live recording on the radio, like the John Peel Show or similar, I think it sounds so much better than the official album. Not always better sound-wise, but very often so much better musical-wise when the bands got that jam together. :)
Cool, I agree with a lot of what you're saying, especially about "bands". I will point out that what you're describing as an "overdub" sounds more like a "punch in" which is a short section, flubbed note, seamlessly replaced- this happens on "Live" tour albums too. But none of that is universal. These are studio tools, they can be used or abused, or ignored altogether.
What I meant to counter was the idea that any studio tool is or was the death knell of music.
Some musical acts defy all the rules, and still offer up stunning art.
 

Robin L

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I think the click track might be older than you think.
The concept sure is. I listen to a lot of country music, particularly 1950's/1970s. There will be a percussionist on a lot of these records who functions as a human click track. Face it, it helps to have everybody on the same page.
 

Robin L

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Robin L

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Found this interesting article: https://globalnews.ca/news/9001083/why-older-music-more-popular-than-new-music/

There is something very, very wrong with today’s music. It just may not be very good.

On warm summer nights, the park across the street from my house is filled with people playing dribbling soccer balls, playing volleyball, or engaging in aggressive games of Spikeball.

Nearly all of them will have music playing through Bluetooth speakers, usually from the Spotify Top 100. And if I’m honest, none of this music is any good. All I hear is mumbled lyrics tunelessly rendered (well, except for the overuse of Auto-Tune) and beats so quantized that they could be substituted for an atomic clock.

I just re-read that last sentence. Harsh stuff from someone who doesn’t understand the music of today’s youth? Or am I scratching the surface of a problem facing the recorded music industry?

Consider the following:

- Kate Bush’s 1985 song Running Up That Hill hit number one on the U.K. singles charts and has reached the top five in other countries around the world. Hounds of Love, the album which spawned the hit, peaked at #8 on the Canadian charts earlier this summer.

- Metallica’s 1986 track Master of Puppets has been given such a boost by its appearance in Stranger Things that it’s currently in the U.S. Top 40. This eight-minute metal song is competing for attention with the latest from Lizzo, Beyonce, Justin Bieber, and Cardi B.

- Fleetwood Mac’s 1977 album Rumours is one of the top-selling albums of the year so far. It’s number nine in the U.S. Rumours is also one of the top-selling vinyl albums of the year so far.

- The Sex Pistols’ God Save the Queen from 1977 is the top-selling vinyl single of 2022. Further down the list, you’ll find that the Clash’s Rock the Casbah (1982) is the eighth best-selling vinyl record.)

- This past week, Queen’s Greatest Hits (1981) just became the biggest-selling record of all time in the U.K. with seven million copies sold after more than 1,000 weeks on the British charts. Last week, it was number 24 in Canada, a couple of positions ahead of Yer Favourites, the Tragically Hip’s greatest hits collection.

Older music is certainly having a moment this summer and much of this interest is not being driven by nostalgic oldsters but by the same kids playing Spikeball across the street.


Luminate, the company that monitors music consumption for the record industry, noted in its mid-year report that “current” music (identified by the industry as material being less than 18 months old) isn’t just losing market share. It’s becoming statistically less popular among all demographic groups. Looking at the United States, the metric known as “Total Album Consumption” of “current music fell by 1.4 per cent in the first half of 2022 compared to a year ago. Meanwhile, “Catalogue” music — material more than 18 months old — is up by 14 per cent.

We can go even deeper. The market share of “Catalogue” music in America is 72 per cent so far this year with “Current” music sitting at 27.6 per cent. That’s a market share decline of three per cent.

To put it another way, “Current” music is becoming progressively less popular when measured by the number of streams and sales. Whatever is being released today just isn’t resonating with the public the way it did in the past. People are showing a growing interest in listening to older music instead.

This obviously requires some unpacking. Why isn’t “Current” music resonating? What’s with the uptick in interest for older material?

Some will point to the lack of so-called “high-impacting” new releases in 2022. If, for example, Taylor Swift or Adele had new records, these numbers might be different. But as it stands, only 102 albums have debuted in the Billboard Top 100 this year (the definition of “high-impacting”) compared with 126 last year. This might relate to calculations by Music Business Worldwide that show the 10 most popular tracks on streaming services have been listened to over one billion times less than they were over a similar period in 2019. Both point to disenchantment with what’s being offered up as new today.

But maybe, just maybe, the answer lies in artistry and creativity. In recent weeks, numerous posts have appeared featuring laments about the quality of today’s music. Here is an example.

Others have weighed in, complaining that too many of today’s wannabe stars are simply celebrities making music with laptops. Older music recorded in old-fashioned studios with real instruments sounds richer and more interesting. Far too many songs are fast fashion: get ’em out, squeeze everything you can out of the tune, and then forget them. (One critic, pointing to how The Beatles’ Yesterday has been covered more than 3,000 times, asks how many covers there will be of Cardi B’s WAP in the future. He has a point.)

More theories: A lack of genuine storytellers in the vein of Carole King or Jackson Browne. Musicians who buy ready-made beats online and then sing/rap over top and then release the result. A desire to be famous rather than pay their dues learning their craft. (Blame all the TV talent shows for that.) Record labels that don’t nurture and develop artists, resulting in ultra-short careers consisting of one or two songs. A lack of people willing to pursue true mastery of a musical instrument with years of practice. Too much perfection in the recording process, an obsession that strips all the humanity and soul out of a song. (Compare anything from today’s top 10 to a Motown hit and the difference becomes obvious.) Formulaic songwriting (I’m looking at you, Max Martin.) Algorithms which just push more of the same.

I’m not done. Thanks to technology, many of today’s artists are having hit songs without ever playing a single live gig. That means they’ve never had to sweat it out in front of strangers over long tours. That boot camp experience is essential to becoming a better all-around musician. You need that experience if you’re not just going to compete with your heroes’ music on the world stage, but also with your heroes’ heroes’ heroes.

And there’s still more to consider. Cast your mind back to 1962. Music that was thirty years old then sounded old. Not only was modern pop music still developing, but we’d barely begun to use things like electric guitars and proper amps. Effects pedals hadn’t been invented yet nor had synthesizers. Recording studios were primitive things compared to today, capable of only producing material in mono. But then starting sometime around 1969, the sonic quality of recordings reached new levels. A song recorded in 1972 sounds every bit as good as something recorded this year. (In fact, you can make an argument that because of over-production, digital technology, and too much compression, older records sound better than what we have today.)

Now let me twist things around. This is happening because today’s young people — and remember that youth is always the driver of what’s happening in music — recognize bad music when they hear it. They’re smarter than to fall for what passes as hit music today.

Thanks to streaming and smartphones, we have access to somewhere north of 80 million songs. Within seconds, we can call up virtually any song recorded in the history of the human race. Why wouldn’t you source out the best of the best of the best?

Unlike previous generations, today’s music fans are far more ecumenical in their musical tastes. If you have a teenager, ask them to show you the last 25 songs they streamed on their phone. I’ll bet you’ll find everything from Drake to AC/DC to Matthew Wilder (specifically a song from the 1980s that became a weird TikTok phenomenon). To their credit, all they care about are good songs, irrespective of genre or era. That’s healthy.

In other words, the kids are alright. It’s the people running the star-making machinery behind the popular song that aren’t.
The answer is simple: dilution via overproduction. Anyone can issue a soundfile of some sort, talent is no longer required of any sort. It's a great big, multitalanted world out there on the internets, just about any combination of sounds can be found with a quick search of You Tube. So, stuff that is classic is more likely to stand out when there is so much more dross out there.

It's not that music has got worse, it's that recording got too easy.
 

Pe8er

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Rap music is a very primitive music style, where the vocals have been robbed the ability to make tunes. Its a mystery why Its still so popular, and maybe this musicform is one of the enemy of future progress in hifi. This musicstyle make people tone-deaf and should be avoided.

So I just watched a clip from Alex Jones trial and I thought that was the most ludicrous thing I’d see today. The fact it’s a mystery to you is not a good look on you, not the genre…
 

Jds81

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Regarding pop and rock music: I think it was when the click-track recordings started to take over, and when the musicians stopped playing together at the same time as a band on the recordings, this is where the musical pace and feeling died on many records.
Technical ”perfect” with computer programs correcting the beats, then turned out to be less musical, less fun to listen to , and less rythmical.

Rap music is a very primitive music style, where the vocals have been robbed the ability to make tunes. Its a mystery why Its still so popular, and maybe this musicform is one of the enemy of future progress in hifi. This musicstyle make people tone-deaf and should be avoided.
This troll edited his post to add more overtly problematic content after the conversation moved on. Just FYI
 

IPunchCholla

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The answer is simple: dilution via overproduction. Anyone can issue a soundfile of some sort, talent is no longer required of any sort. It's a great big, multitalanted world out there on the internets, just about any combination of sounds can be found with a quick search of You Tube. So, stuff that is classic is more likely to stand out when there is so much more dross out there.

It's not that music has got worse, it's that recording got too easy.
I’m not sure I agree about recording getting too easy. I’m a photography professor and I love the access that smartphone give. Yes there are billions more bad photos out there because of them and they have put a major hit on photojournalism, but it also is giving far more people around the globe a visual voice and I am seeing more good photography than ever.

I’m all for everyone getting more access to recording (or even more people like me, who can’t play an instrument but have ideas for music). We just need better tools for sorting through it all. Something like an Instagram focused just on music.
 

RayDunzl

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It's not that music has got worse, it's that recording got too easy.

Well, surely the distribution seems to have become all but effortless...
 

Robin L

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