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The root of audiophile myths (and how we fell for them)?

Pogre

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As I said before their money their choice, why is it dishonest framing? Some of you don’t seem to know the difference between All and Many. Point out one post where I’ve said all criticisms of subjective judgement shouldn’t be made? When it comes to abuse it’s another matter.
It's dishonest because I think what you are considering abuse is simply calling out and/or questioning the truth of a claim.

I'm not saying you can't find any examples but by and large I think most of the "abuse" is skepticism with a touch of outrage because someone is spewing falsehoods...
 

ahofer

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Pogre

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And by the way, there is a report feature on these forums. When you see abuse, report it. Take it up with the abuser. Don't use it as an excuse to make blanket statements and go ad hominem with people who are trying to have a reasonable discussion with you.
 

Suffolkhifinut

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It's dishonest because I think what you are considering abuse is simply calling out and/or questioning the truth of a claim.

I'm not saying you can't find any examples but by and large I think most of the "abuse" is skepticism with a touch of outrage because someone is spewing falsehoods...
Skepticism is good, abuse is not! Can post 65 be classed as skepticism?
 

Mart68

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On the age scale I’m a lot nearer to my century than fifty. People do join ASR to ask for advice and that’s great, I’ve never posted comments on those particular threads, there is such a range of kit most of it I’ve never heard and wouldn’t comment on it for that reason. ASR runs a useful service with it’s testing regime and if it gets people to be cautious before buying it must be good. Only started posting on this thread due to abusive comments, yet most of you didn’t seem to mind him making them?
well I'm not the moderator plus the comment was (to me anyway) made tongue-in- cheek.

Also some of your comments could be interpreted as insulting. Saying that people only criticise very expensive equipment because they cannot afford it for example. That's just a variation on 'You must be deaf', 'Your system isn't revealing enough', 'You don't have the experience' and so forth.

I've had all of them plus many more, usually if someone has asked for advice about buying mains cables, magic fuses or something similar and I have suggested to them that they would be wasting their money. Par for the course, not worth getting excited about.

I think part of the problem is that there is so much nonsense talked and sold in audio that people with any real knowledge do tend to get exasperated with it and so respond in extreme terms. I can understand why they do that even if it isn't an optimal strategy. They ran out of patience with it years ago. I would rather they responded like that than not respond at all though. Too many people getting led up the garden path, someone has to say something.

Just the other day I was reading on a forum someone posting about how they are getting into debt buying nonsense devices on a credit card, egged on by others. That's the reality of it. I'm not about saving the world but if I can do something to counter-act that sort of thing then I will. If someone feels insulted along the way then that's just too bad.
 

Pogre

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Skepticism is good, abuse is not! Can post 65 be classed as skepticism?
If you are referring to the cockroach post, I happen to agree with it. Some of those guys are flat out cockroach scumbags and deserve to be called out for it. That's neither here nor there though. I Already acknowledged that you could probably find a few examples. You're ignoring that part of my post though, which is another form of dishonesty…
 

Pogre

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Also some of your comments could be interpreted as insulting. Saying that people only criticise very expensive equipment because they cannot afford it for example. That's just a variation on 'You must be deaf', 'Your system isn't revealing enough', 'You don't have the experience' and so forth.
Or, "You're too poor to understand"... It's snobby, insulting and untrue.
 

Suffolkhifinut

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well I'm not the moderator plus the comment was (to me anyway) made tongue-in- cheek.

Also some of your comments could be interpreted as insulting. Saying that people only criticise very expensive equipment because they cannot afford it for example. That's just a variation on 'You must be deaf', 'Your system isn't revealing enough', 'You don't have the experience' and so forth.

I've had all of them plus many more, usually if someone has asked for advice about buying mains cables, magic fuses or something similar and I have suggested to them that they would be wasting their money. Par for the course, not worth getting excited about.

I think part of the problem is that there is so much nonsense talked and sold in audio that people with any real knowledge do tend to get exasperated with it and so respond in extreme terms. I can understand why they do that even if it isn't an optimal strategy. They ran out of patience with it years ago. I would rather they responded like that than not respond at all though. Too many people getting led up the garden path, someone has to say something.

Just the other day I was reading on a forum someone posting about how they are getting into debt buying nonsense devices on a credit card, egged on by others. That's the reality of it. I'm not about saving the world but if I can do something to counter-act that sort of thing then I will. If someone feels insulted along the way then that's just too bad.
Agree with many of your points yet we all need to be careful in what we say or do. The current consensus is it isn’t what you say or do, it’s how it’s perceived. In the case of post 65 don’t think you need to be over sensitive to find it abusive.
 

Mart68

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Or, "You're too poor to understand"... It's snobby, insulting and untrue.
I think that there's a lack of understanding as to why some of us are not content to 'Just trust your ears' and so there's a tendency to flail about for reasons.
 

Mart68

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Agree with many of your points yet we all need to be careful in what we say or do. The current consensus is it isn’t what you say or do, it’s how it’s perceived. In the case of post 65 don’t think you need to be over sensitive to find it abusive.
Agreed. A civil discourse is always going to be the most productive. Or at least have the highest chance of being productive.
 

Pogre

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Agree with many of your points yet we all need to be careful in what we say or do. The current consensus is it isn’t what you say or do, it’s how it’s perceived. In the case of post 65 don’t think you need to be over sensitive to find it abusive.
191 posts so far in this thread, Many of them replies to your responses, and you're still flogging and flailing around about one of them. 1 post. How about honestly addressing the myriad other posts that have been directed toward you?
 

Pogre

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Why do people feel the need to announce when someone has been muted? Lol. Why not just mute and move on?
 
D

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Why do people feel the need to announce when someone has been muted? Lol. Why not just mute and move on?
Because it makes them feel powerful.

I really did mean that was some pretty serious overthinking of a relatively simple problem. When speaker box panels vibrate with the sound (caused by changing internal pressures) it is most often audible if you know what to listen for. Putting your hand on the box will tell you if the panel is vibrating. No it does not mean you will necessarily hear it as a distinct sound, but it will colour the sound you do hear.

There's no need to go knee deep into math to understand that... and there's no reason to complicate the discussion. It's akin to a long and complex protocol for checking to see if a burner is hot when all you have to do is hold your hand above it...

I saw no value in that, given that it was unlikely to be the end of the "I'm smarter than you" it started.
 

Suffolkhifinut

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191 posts so far in this thread, Many of them replies to your responses, and you're still flogging and flailing around about one of them. 1 post. How about honestly addressing the myriad other posts that have been directed toward you?
Have tried, regarding honesty why don’t you try reading my posts without bias?
 

Pogre

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Have tried, regarding honesty why don’t you try reading my posts without bias?
All of your replies to me have been deflections and finger pointing at others. You haven't acknowledged many of my points and you have yet to take back or acknowledge what you said that started all of this as being exaggerated to the point of being completely untrue.

yet on this site most seem to believe nothing in the HiFi industry should cost no more than $100.

That statement is completely untrue, you got called out for it, and have been dancing around it ever since. For days now. To me that's dishonest. Period.
 

Suffolkhifinut

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If you are referring to the cockroach post, I happen to agree with it. Some of those guys are flat out cockroach scumbags and deserve to be called out for it. That's neither here nor there though. I Already acknowledged that you could probably find a few examples. You're ignoring that part of my post though, which is another form of dishonesty…
Think you are abusive and this confirms it! Yet you think it’s neither here or there, think you are beyond contempt.
 

Pogre

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Think you are abusive and this confirms it! Yet you think it’s neither here or there, think you are beyond contempt.
Abusive to who..?

Did you just personally insult me?
 
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