The Laptop Thread

[srrxr71]

Whose lifetime?

Of the machine I bet. I think it may tie into the BIOS or hardware configuration.

 

[Ron Texas]

Easiest way to minimize the bloat is to create a USB clean install stick and install a clean fresh copy of windows as soon as you get it. The license should be tied to the bios so you won’t have to pay for a copy. There are instructions for how to create the stick and install.

These days it goes fast like you can install a clean windows copy in 10 minutes.


Edit: also if you wish to go hardcore old school there is a technique to install without using a Microsoft account but it requires a little bit of trickery. They really try to force you into logging in or creating an Microsoft account. Personally I don’t care for it.

But one way or another if you use the machine for gaming or want to install store apps you will have to log in. But in just those apps. It will keep trying to log the whole OS into that account but you have to watch it.

It’s a real pain and as much as I didn’t like Mac OS I ended up biting thr bullet. The new version is more tolerable with that new feature that puts your open windows on the side.

Edit 2: it’s called stage manager. That feature has been very helpful. Before I couldn’t really understand the window manager.

The only negative to MacOS I have found is several free windows programs I love are either paid or not available. What I like is high performance in a 4lb (including the charger) package without noise or heat and a clean install out of the box. I don't know what there is to not like about MacOS, perhaps you could elaborate.

It isn't hard to get Win 11 running on an Intel or AMD laptop. The problem is there's a strong chance you will not have the manufacturer's proprietary update, power, fan control programs and even some hardware drivers. Maybe you can scrounge some of this off the manufacturer's site, maybe not.

I have mentioned above with Dell the hardware control functionality is integrated into the spyware. A salesperson told me Microsoft Surface laptops are delivered clean. From experience I can say LG laptops can be cleaned up easily, unless that has changed.

 

[srrxr71]

The only negative to MacOS I have found is several free windows programs I love are either paid or not available. What I like is high performance in a 4lb (including the charger) package without noise or heat and a clean install out of the box. I don't know what there is to not like about MacOS, perhaps you could elaborate.

It isn't hard to get Win 11 running on an Intel or AMD laptop. The problem is there's a strong chance you will not have the manufacturer's proprietary update, power, fan control programs and even some hardware drivers. Maybe you can scrounge some of this off the manufacturer's site, maybe not.

I have mentioned above with Dell the hardware control functionality is integrated into the spyware. A salesperson told me Microsoft Surface laptops are delivered clean. From experience I can say LG laptops can be cleaned up easily, unless that has changed.

Yes surface thankfully come clean. I actually can do without most the manufacturer features like on screen display. Sometimes fan control can be handled by a 3rd party freeware app. Got to figure it out within the 14 day return period.

For audio video drivers I just go direct to the manufacturer website and get the driver there. Also usually windows will have a driver with minimal functionality which is usually enough for me. I used to care about all those software features but these days i’m happy without most of them.

As for Mac OS for the longest time I could never understand how the window manager works. It’s a different paradigm.

Like hitting the red button doesn’t actually close the window for example. Mostly the workflow is to keep all windows open all the time and it leads to a cluttered desktop.

However they have features like Mission Control were designed to help people with this workflow paradigm.

It just takes some getting used to. For me personally discovering stage manager has helped me. I guess you just have to learn all the trackpad gestures and it seems the hardcore Mac folks learn the keyboard commands and they work primarily from those instead of the GUI.

It’s mostly just learning and developing your own workflow with Mac OS. They have been adding features to make switching easier over time.

Also Mac OS even 2 years ago was weirdly buggy too. It has improved a lot in the last 2 years. Maybe it was a product of the switch to Apple silicon. I would get freezes and kernel panics but it doesn’t happen anymore.

Windows is surprisingly very stable these days however I think it’s a product of automatic updates constantly restarting your machine for you. They seem to push updates out very often to make the machine restart often enough the user doesn’t have to do it.

 

[Blumlein 88]

I don't know what there is to not like about MacOS, perhaps you could elaborate.

You asked me that question and I don't think I replied at the time. It is what srrxr71 said. Plus a number of things when multi-tasking which are a click or side menu away seem to require more deliberate action on MacOS. Like two steps to really close something. Or an extra step to open something. It is designed to make using MacOS a more focused and calm experience. I found it made using the OS a relatively sluggish experience. Just a drag on using it I don't feel in Windows or KDE in Linux. I forced myself to use nothing else for 5 weeks once. I really hate the menu stuck at the top that isn't attached the software in use. Rather it stays put as you switch between what you have open. That one feature I think it is mal-conceived. When I went back to Linux it was like taking off an uncomfortable boot at the end of the day to put on some cozy slippers. Usually when software is just different using it for a few weeks makes it comfortable.

I'd like to replace my aged desktop with something in the form factor of a Mac Mini. x86 based systems like that either need to compromise performance due to heat or have noisy fans. For similar or less money one can have an x86 system full size and quiet which is an equal or more powerful computer vs a Mac. I'd just like to not have the big box anymore. Plus Apple is just ripping you off on storage and memory costs. Maybe if in a couple years one of the ARM linux distros is well developed it would be worth having a Mac running linux. It will still be expensive for the performance on offer.

 

[srrxr71]

You asked me that question and I don't think I replied at the time. It is what srrxr71 said. Plus a number of things when multi-tasking which are a click or side menu away seem to require more deliberate action on MacOS. Like two steps to really close something. Or an extra step to open something. It is designed to make using MacOS a more focused and calm experience. I found it made using the OS a relatively sluggish experience. Just a drag on using it I don't feel in Windows or KDE in Linux. I forced myself to use nothing else for 5 weeks once. I really hate the menu stuck at the top that isn't attached the software in use. Rather it stays put as you switch between what you have open. That one feature I think it is mal-conceived. When I went back to Linux it was like taking off an uncomfortable boot at the end of the day to put on some cozy slippers. Usually when software is just different using it for a few weeks makes it comfortable.

I'd like to replace my aged desktop with something in the form factor of a Mac Mini. x86 based systems like that either need to compromise performance due to heat or have noisy fans. For similar or less money one can have an x86 system full size and quiet which is an equal or more powerful computer vs a Mac. I'd just like to not have the big box anymore. Plus Apple is just ripping you off on storage and memory costs. Maybe if in a couple years one of the ARM linux distros is well developed it would be worth having a Mac running linux. It will still be expensive for the performance on offer.

A Mac mini is like the cheat code. Yes you have to pay for memory but for me 16GB is enough. For storage I take advantage of thunderbolt. Both for music storage and Time Machine.

That menu on top except or the leftmost icon does actually change with the app that’s open. But it’s not always clear which app is “open” cuz all of them are. It’s hard to compartmentalize. But with time you will get used to it. Stage manager fixes a lot of it for me. You can group apps that show up so you have several workflows going that you can switch between.

For example o have one group that is just for music. Including all the apps I need for music listening. Then I have another group for watching YouTube. So that feature has made it easier to understand for me.

 

[Blumlein 88]

A Mac mini is like the cheat code. Yes you have to pay for memory but for me 16GB is enough. For storage I take advantage of thunderbolt. Both for music storage and Time Machine.

That menu on top except or the leftmost icon does actually change with the app that’s open. But it’s not always clear which app is “open” cuz all of them are. It’s hard to compartmentalize. But with time you will get used to it. Stage manager fixes a lot of it for me. You can group apps that show up so you have several workflows going that you can switch between.

For example o have one group that is just for music. Including all the apps I need for music listening. Then I have another group for watching YouTube. So that feature has made it easier to understand for me.

I have a Macbook I use when doing recordings remotely. Stage manager helps. But yes the menu at the top is not clear which app it is currently with. A confusion that had no reason to exist.

 

[Ron Texas]

@Blumlein 88 I appreciate your candor although I find no problems with MacOS. I see the situation in terms of the stress of having to do things differently.

 

[Ron Texas]

Just a few quick thoughts here: I started this thread with several generalizations which were based on solid hands on experience with 7 laptops in a period of a bit over 2 years. This doesn't make me the world's greatest expert, but I do believe it gives me more knowledge than someone who has been using their old faithful for the last 3 or 4 years and hasn't laid a hand on anything else.

It seems some around here don't understand the word "generalization" and found exceptions with the objective of proving me wrong. I did not say always. The existence of a single Windows laptop, which might be outside of my generalizations, out of the at least 1,000 models available proves nothing. It proves even less when it is a 3 year old model which is no longer available and would compare poorly against that which is available today.

As usual around here there was a disproportionate number of responses regarding Linux. That free OS has never gained traction outside of the server space where it rules. It serves a niche user. My objective here was to help the masses so to speak.

To be honest I would not have looked at a Mac prior to the switch away from Intel. It was a more expensive machine without a boost in performance. MacOS may be better or worse, but it wasn't worth the effort to make the change. The move to Apple silicon with its screaming fast performance is what motivated me along with being able to get a clean install out of the box. Sure, some around here can fix the various problems I mentioned, but it's worth it to me, and most people, to avoid the problems from the start. Technically skilled people have a way of not understanding how helpless the rest of the population is. In a business setting the time required to deal with these problems costs money. That's why IBM some years ago put everyone on Mac's. They found when support costs were included costs were lower. I don't know what IBM is doing these days.

A few around here don't like MacOS. I'm not sure if they found something really wrong with it or if transitioning to something different was too annoying. I will venture a generalization here about the difference between Win and MacOS. Windows seems to have more ways to do the same thing than MacOS. A small example is a right click in Windows may be used to create a new text file. This feature is absent in MacOS. In either OS the user may launch a text editor and create a document that way. However, If one was doing it in Windows with a right click they could very easily wind up hating MacOS. There are many of these little differences.

 

[Blumlein 88]

My take on the three common OS's. Yeah, I know everyone has been waiting for it. Sorry.

I think Windows has lots of options which is good and bad. In its current version it is very busy. You kind of have trouble maintaining focus almost for simple tasks. The attempt to get you into the Windows store and money-tise it are responsible. Ads in your OS.....PLEASE! You can alter it to take care of most of this, but you shouldn't have to.

MAC OS is calm and serene. It works out of the box, it works the way it works, and it isn't friendly if you want to work some other way. Which can be frustrating for some users. For most it is one of the main things they like about living in that OS. Some included software with windows will cost you some money. It is a calm OS to live with however. And if you never used another or use it long enough you don't miss anything. I think it bothers me more because I know Windows and Linux enough that when something is not easy I can think of three easy ways to do it in two other OS's.

Linux gives one the options like in Windows (or more), it is not busy like Windows. It is not serene like MacOS, but it is pretty calm. It does require a bit more user involvement though that has been dialed way, way down versus a decade ago. You probably have about as much chance of some bug or other issue cropping up in Windows as in some of the better Linux distros.

Frankly, I'd probably give MacOS a more serious go, but it irks the crap out of me that they are just plain ripping you off on memory and hard drives. And no I don't want to dongle some external drive off the back of the machine. It is an insult to need that after already paying a premium for what you get.

 

[Ron Texas]

@Blumlein 88 It appears Windows became a lot busier with Win 11. There are advertisements on the settings page and similar annoyances in Edge. What I found is the stuff that costs money on a Mac isn't so much that which is included with Windows but that which free in the Windows ecosystem. Free music playback and related apps seem to be an area where Windows has a major advantage.

As for external hard drives, I had to use them with Windows due to the amount of data that I need to access. Having said that, I'm not utilizing the measly 512 GB drive in my Mac as well as I could. Perhaps I don't see the external drive as that much of a hassle.

 

[Blumlein 88]

@Blumlein 88 It appears Windows became a lot busier with Win 11. There are advertisements on the settings page and similar annoyances in Edge. What I found is the stuff that costs money on a Mac isn't so much that which is included with Windows but that which free in the Windows ecosystem. Free music playback and related apps seem to be an area where Windows has a major advantage.

As for external hard drives, I had to use them with Windows due to the amount of data that I need to access. Having said that, I'm not utilizing the measly 512 GB drive in my Mac as well as I could. Perhaps I don't see the external drive as that much of a hassle.

That is what I meant, was Win 11. You can get rid of the ads, but you shouldn't have to bother. And yes, it isn't free software from Windows, it is free software in the Windows ecosystem. I think Apple is somewhat hostile to allowing such an external ecosystem to develop. There are some good reasons for it, and some money to made as well.

 

[Ron Texas]

@Blumlein 88 Apple is certainly hostile to having an external ecosystem for iOS. On MacOS major commercial software like Adobe is external as are many utilities which are on Sourceforge. If anything, Microsoft is trying to become more like Apple with the Microsoft Store and now Windows S which only runs apps from the Microsoft Store. Personal computing isn't what it used to be. That ties into my complaint about computer manufacturers loading laptops with all sorts of data gathering programs.

Then again, our TV's and cars are loaded with spyware these days. I saw a news item today where the current US administration is concerned about Chinese made EV's sending data back to China. Maybe we are all toast.

 

[srrxr71]

My take on the three common OS's. Yeah, I know everyone has been waiting for it. Sorry.

I think Windows has lots of options which is good and bad. In its current version it is very busy. You kind of have trouble maintaining focus almost for simple tasks. The attempt to get you into the Windows store and money-tise it are responsible. Ads in your OS.....PLEASE! You can alter it to take care of most of this, but you shouldn't have to.

MAC OS is calm and serene. It works out of the box, it works the way it works, and it isn't friendly if you want to work some other way. Which can be frustrating for some users. For most it is one of the main things they like about living in that OS. Some included software with windows will cost you some money. It is a calm OS to live with however. And if you never used another or use it long enough you don't miss anything. I think it bothers me more because I know Windows and Linux enough that when something is not easy I can think of three easy ways to do it in two other OS's.

Linux gives one the options like in Windows (or more), it is not busy like Windows. It is not serene like MacOS, but it is pretty calm. It does require a bit more user involvement though that has been dialed way, way down versus a decade ago. You probably have about as much chance of some bug or other issue cropping up in Windows as in some of the better Linux distros.

Frankly, I'd probably give MacOS a more serious go, but it irks the crap out of me that they are just plain ripping you off on memory and hard drives. And no I don't want to dongle some external drive off the back of the machine. It is an insult to need that after already paying a premium for what you get.

I had to. 4tb for Time Machine and 4tb for bulk storage. Both external thunderbolt SSDs.

 

[Snarfie]

Are there forum members using a 1 TB (or more) SD card to put their lossless audio files on an use it as their main (audio) drive in a Windows OS. Disadvantage could be searching for files. Or is it desired to upgrade to let say a 2TB more SSD drive doing that means hassel making a system copy transferring etc. Putting in a 1TB SD card is compared simple. Any experience advise.

 

[elvisizer]

sd cards are a bit slower in general but they're fine for storing music files where you do a lot more reading than writing. shouldn't be a problem at all as long as you get a real SD card- lots of knock offs out there, make sure to purchase from a reliable retailer and even then you might get a fake anyway lol it's that bad

 

[elvisizer]

Free music playback and related apps seem to be an area where Windows has a major advantage.

not true, at least not for what I need/use. love my windows machines, but there's a LOT of free stuff out there for macOS.

 

[Ze Frog]

I’m curious about this…

Qualcomm Snapdragon X Elite is a mobile processor for laptops that was announced at the end of 2023. It is the first processor from Qualcomm to feature its custom Oryon CPU cores, which are designed to rival Apple's M-series and Intel's Core processors. The Snapdragon X Elite has 12 Oryon cores that can run up to 4.3 GHz and support on-device AI inferencing. It also has a powerful Adreno GPU and a Snapdragon X65 5G modem. Qualcomm claims that the Snapdragon X Elite offers up to 2 times faster CPU performance and 4.5 times faster AI processing power than its competitors, while consuming much less power and delivering longer battery life. PCs powered by Snapdragon X Elite are expected to be available from mid-2024¹². For more details, you can check out the Snapdragon X Elite webpage³ or the product brief⁴.

Source: Conversation with Bing, 1/17/2024
(1) Qualcomm Unleashes Snapdragon X Elite: The AI Super-Charged Platform to .... https://www.qualcomm.com/news/relea...snapdragon-x-elite--the-ai-super-charged-plat.
(2) We tested it: Here's how the Snapdragon X Elite compares to Apple .... https://www.xda-developers.com/snapdragon-x-elite-benchmarks/.
(3) Snapdragon X Elite Specs Leak Reveal Top-Tier PC SoC Sports 12 Oryon .... https://wccftech.com/qualcomm-snapdragon-x-elite-pc-soc-detailed-specifications-leak/.
(4) Qualcomm Snapdragon X Elite Processor - Benchmarks and Specs. https://www.notebookcheck.net/Qualc...-Processor-Benchmarks-and-Specs.763556.0.html.
(5) Snapdragon X Elite is Qualcomm's latest ARM-based chipset for laptops. https://www.gsmarena.com/snapdragon...t_armbased_chipset_for_laptops-news-60346.php.

Some of those Snapdragons would really be rather suited to laptops, at least they can have adequate cooling unlike a lot of phones running them. It's really odd, I always thought as chips got smaller and more efficient heat would go down. Admittedly it's a smaller die space, but still. Just shows how cooling technology isn't at the same level, there's graphene but it's still prohibitly expensive it seems.