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The impossible decision of buying an AVR/AVP!

Kostas

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Goodday everyone,

The past couple of months I have been trying to decide on which AVR/AVP device is the best for my system and I have been struggling to find something that will suit me.

I currently have a new 5.0 surround system with 5 active speakers and I am planning of getting a sub too. At the moment I am using the 3.5mm jack outputs from my pc to drive them which is.... the worst possible way to drive such system but the only choice since I haven't decided on an AVR/AVP yet.

First I was thinking of getting the Denon 4700 but from what I learned, not only the newer models have the subpar PCM5102A Dac inside instead of the AKM but the price has also skyrocketed. This in addition to the lack of any updated measurements with the new dac forced me to stop considering it as a viable option.

Then I was looking at the Marantz processors and after thinking they might be a good choice I read their reviews here and there goes another option. Same goes for Yamaha AVRs/AVPs....

Then I learned about the iota avx17 which is a very interesting processor but there is very little info about it and only a couple of reviews. In addition to that, it lacks 8k, auro3d, imax enhanced and uses a very questionable auto eq system.

Now I am completely lost and have absolutely no idea what to do and so I desperately need your help!

This device will be used for HiFi music, movies and gaming so ideally what I need is a processor with balanced outputs which supports all the movie audio formats including auro 3d (if possible), 8K hdmi for gaming, has a good dac for music and a decent auto eq like audyssey. My budget is 2500$ max (and this is still pushing it) what would you recommend me to do?

P.S. Since 8k is useless for movies, I would be willing to go for a 4k device if it's possible to connect my pc to my tv and send audio to the receiver/AVP when gaming without any connection issues. I would also be willing to part with auro 3d if the device ticks the rest of the boxes.
 

jcarys

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I've got nothing to contribute on the gaming aspect, other than 8K for games seems pretty aspirational, considering how few true 4K renders there are currently. Auro3D has limited use in the real world also, unless you are just in love with upmixing other formats.

Outside of the obvious negative of the price increase from Denon, I would not worry about the DAC change. The TI chip is perfectly able of performing up to or beyond the capabilities of any source you would sent to it. You said your speakers are all active, so you could drop down a model to the 3700 and save some money. Balanced outputs are also going to be hard to find at this price point. But I don't understand the need - you're not going to be adding an external amp to active speakers.
 

sarumbear

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Goodday everyone,

The past couple of months I have been trying to decide on which AVR/AVP device is the best for my system and I have been struggling to find something that will suit me.

I currently have a new 5.0 surround system with 5 active speakers and I am planning of getting a sub too. At the moment I am using the 3.5mm jack outputs from my pc to drive them which is.... the worst possible way to drive such system but the only choice since I haven't decided on an AVR/AVP yet.

First I was thinking of getting the Denon 4700 but from what I learned, not only the newer models have the subpar PCM5102A Dac inside instead of the AKM but the price has also skyrocketed. This in addition to the lack of any updated measurements with the new dac forced me to stop considering it as a viable option.

Then I was looking at the Marantz processors and after thinking they might be a good choice I read their reviews here and there goes another option. Same goes for Yamaha AVRs/AVPs....

Then I learned about the iota avx17 which is a very interesting processor but there is very little info about it and only a couple of reviews. In addition to that, it lacks 8k, auro3d, imax enhanced and uses a very questionable auto eq system.

Now I am completely lost and have absolutely no idea what to do and so I desperately need your help!

This device will be used for HiFi music, movies and gaming so ideally what I need is a processor with balanced outputs which supports all the movie audio formats including auro 3d (if possible), 8K hdmi for gaming, has a good dac for music and a decent auto eq like audyssey. My budget is 2500$ max (and this is still pushing it) what would you recommend me to do?

P.S. Since 8k is useless for movies, I would be willing to go for a 4k device if it's possible to connect my pc to my tv and send audio to the receiver/AVP when gaming without any connection issues. I would also be willing to part with auro 3d if the device ticks the rest of the boxes.
I can’t see what is impossible other than your budget not fitting your specs. There are many AVPs that fit your bill. They are though 10-15x more expensive than a Denon or Marantz.
 

sojun80

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I bought a Onkyo TX-RZ50 with the intention of powering speakers externally.
 

BDWoody

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First I was thinking of getting the Denon 4700 but from what I learned, not only the newer models have the subpar PCM5102A Dac inside instead of the AKM but the price has also skyrocketed. This in addition to the lack of any updated measurements with the new dac forced me to stop considering it as a viable option.

I was in the same boat, and went for the 3700.

I use powered monitors at the moment, so only use the preamp outs, but it's been great so far. I figured I'd trust Denon to not F it up, and if I didn't like it for whatever reason, returns are easy.

Refurb with 3 year warranty for $1200.
 

delta76

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You are thinking too much. You probably won,'t hear any difference with the new , "inferior" DAC.

Agreed on the increased price though. But very little we can do about it.
 

vicenzo_del_paris

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2 years ago, I was looking for an AV 5.1 preamp.
They were outrageously expensive and I came across the Canton Smart Connect that was launched at same period.
It filled all checkmarks for 500e.
A real bargain.
I pre-ordered it directly from Canton.
It was a nice device but had too many issues. For example, randomly when starting decoding a stream ( when switching channel on TV, pausing a film and then resume it,...), extremely loud pops/cracks occured in all my speakers. Sometimes very frightening !!
Also it took up to 2/3 sec to get sound (while video stream was instant) when switching streams/ TV channels.
My wife went crazy.
I went back and forth with the support, they made a couple of firmware update but could not fixed the issue.
After 2 months, I gave up and asked for refund.
Canton support was very good but the device was not mature enough.

Apparently, this is now the generation 2 of Smart Connect 5.1.
Maybe they fixed all issues !
 

MLaranjeiras

Active Member
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Sep 25, 2021
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Goodday everyone,

The past couple of months I have been trying to decide on which AVR/AVP device is the best for my system and I have been struggling to find something that will suit me.

I currently have a new 5.0 surround system with 5 active speakers and I am planning of getting a sub too. At the moment I am using the 3.5mm jack outputs from my pc to drive them which is.... the worst possible way to drive such system but the only choice since I haven't decided on an AVR/AVP yet.

First I was thinking of getting the Denon 4700 but from what I learned, not only the newer models have the subpar PCM5102A Dac inside instead of the AKM but the price has also skyrocketed. This in addition to the lack of any updated measurements with the new dac forced me to stop considering it as a viable option.

Then I was looking at the Marantz processors and after thinking they might be a good choice I read their reviews here and there goes another option. Same goes for Yamaha AVRs/AVPs....

Then I learned about the iota avx17 which is a very interesting processor but there is very little info about it and only a couple of reviews. In addition to that, it lacks 8k, auro3d, imax enhanced and uses a very questionable auto eq system.

Now I am completely lost and have absolutely no idea what to do and so I desperately need your help!

This device will be used for HiFi music, movies and gaming so ideally what I need is a processor with balanced outputs which supports all the movie audio formats including auro 3d (if possible), 8K hdmi for gaming, has a good dac for music and a decent auto eq like audyssey. My budget is 2500$ max (and this is still pushing it) what would you recommend me to do?

P.S. Since 8k is useless for movies, I would be willing to go for a 4k device if it's possible to connect my pc to my tv and send audio to the receiver/AVP when gaming without any connection issues. I would also be willing to part with auro 3d if the device ticks the rest of the boxes.
Not very clear what you intend to do with a processor. About Receiver, save 500 bucks and think about the Denon 3700. 9 powered and 11 processing channels. With the savings, if you wish, you can get a entry-level stereo power or integrated amplifier with more focus on stereo. There are some good mint Pioneer Elite AV receiver for much less. See the link (a little scary with these guys facing me) https://www.ebay.com/itm/165556898954?epid=3033660337&hash=item268bf5cc8a:g:990AAOSwdE5ivwCJ or https://www.ebay.com/itm/224845216199?hash=item3459d1b9c7:g:u6IAAOSwgJpiD~Sv

In Brazil, we barely see full HD on cable TVs. The standard is HD and the sound track is 99% the Paleozoic 5.1 Dolby Digital Plus.
 

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Kostas

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I've got nothing to contribute on the gaming aspect, other than 8K for games seems pretty aspirational, considering how few true 4K renders there are currently. Auro3D has limited use in the real world also, unless you are just in love with upmixing other formats.
I am more interested in the massive bandwidth of the 8K hdmi which will allow me to play games in 4K with more than 60 FPS.

I agree with Auro3D, the up-mixer is the main reason I am interested in it. This is why I could live without it if the AVR/AVP Ticks all the other boxes.

You said your speakers are all active, so you could drop down a model to the 3700 and save some money. Balanced outputs are also going to be hard to find at this price point. But I don't understand the need - you're not going to be adding an external amp to active speakers.

A HiFi salesman told me that the 4700H has better processing power compared to the 3700H. Is this true or is he trying to sell me the more expensive unit?

The balanced outputs would help with the surround back speakers which are using 12m cables. With balanced XLRs I can connect them without any noise issues.

I can’t see what is impossible other than your budget not fitting your specs. There are many AVPs that fit your bill. They are though 10-15x more expensive than a Denon or Marantz.
Hence the impossible part, trying to find something within my budget that will meet my needs. I am asking because there could be options that I didn't know about and here is the best place to learn if I can find an AVR/AVP for my system.

I use powered monitors at the moment, so only use the preamp outs, but it's been great so far. I figured I'd trust Denon to not F it up, and if I didn't like it for whatever reason, returns are easy.
What is your use case? Movies, music, gaming? Also, how long are the RCAs you are using for the back speaker and if they are over 6 meters did you notice any noise coming from the speakers?

You are thinking too much. You probably won,'t hear any difference with the new , "inferior" DAC.

Agreed on the increased price though. But very little we can do about it.
I am thinking too much because I ve never listened to an AVR/AVP up close or had the opportunity to compare two of them to listen to their differences. All I have are reviews and graphs, so when I hear that something doesn't work as well above 2 volts for example I understand what they mean in theory but I don't know what to do with this information in real life. Will I be able to hear the difference or is it a detail that will not affect me. This is what happens when you don't have any listening experience with AVRs....

The increased prices were a punch in the stomach.... I was waiting for the prices to drop and suddenly 600 euros up... Absolutely nothing to do about it other than find a nice corner and start crying...

This is incredible actually!!! 650 euros for an atmos/dts-hd decoder!!! I ll start doing some research regarding its dac and start watching some reviews. I still don't know if I ll install ceiling speakers (especially with all the bad reviews about the poor height speaker atmos mixes) so If I don't, this is a great and affordable solution! Thank you for the recommendation.

Apparently, this is now the generation 2 of Smart Connect 5.1.
Maybe they fixed all issues !
Thank you for informing me about possible issues! I hope they fixed things in second gen... I ll do some research.
 
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Kostas

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Not very clear what you intend to do with a processor. About Receiver, save 500 bucks and think about the Denon 3700. 9 powered and 11 processing channels. With the savings, if you wish, you can get a entry-level stereo power or integrated amplifier with more focus on stereo. There are some good mint Pioneer Elite AV receiver for much less. See the link (a little scary with these guys facing me)
Since all my speakers are active I though I could take advantage of the balanced XLR outs of the processors. I watch youtubers like Youthman and he said he could hear a difference between the denons in pre-amp mode and the marantz processor (he liked the marantz better) because it processes surround better. No idea what it means in real life since there are no shops to visit and listen to it... Is the only difference between the 3700 and 4700 the extra watts and auro? Like I said above, a salesman told me that the 4700h has better processing than the 3700. Do you know anything about that?
 

sarumbear

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Since all my speakers are active I though I could take advantage of the balanced XLR outs of the processors. I watch youtubers like Youthman and he said he could hear a difference between the denons in pre-amp mode and the marantz processor (he liked the marantz better) because it processes surround better. No idea what it means in real life since there are no shops to visit and listen to it... Is the only difference between the 3700 and 4700 the extra watts and auro? Like I said above, a salesman told me that the 4700h has better processing than the 3700. Do you know anything about that?
Marantz and Denon are measured here. Search the reviews.
 
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Kostas

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Marantz and Denon are measured here. Search the reviews.
I did. I ve already read the measurement reviews but there is nothing about whether it processes surround better than an AVR
 

sarumbear

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I did. I ve already read the measurement reviews but there is nothing about whether it processes surround better than an AVR
I meant the Denon and Marantz “AVR”s.
 

MLaranjeiras

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Since all my speakers are active I though I could take advantage of the balanced XLR outs of the processors. I watch youtubers like Youthman and he said he could hear a difference between the denons in pre-amp mode and the marantz processor (he liked the marantz better) because it processes surround better. No idea what it means in real life since there are no shops to visit and listen to it... Is the only difference between the 3700 and 4700 the extra watts and auro? Like I said above, a salesman told me that the 4700h has better processing than the 3700. Do you know anything about that?
I do not think XLR might be your main concern. Personally, I´d rather to focus on costs vs benefits.
 

GalZohar

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I did. I ve already read the measurement reviews but there is nothing about whether it processes surround better than an AVR

As far as I'm aware, the "processing" is standard decoding of formats, unless you activate any of the DSP algorithms, in which case if both devices support the algorithm they should generally also provide the same result.

As for room correction "processing", as far as I know all Denon/Marantz receivers and processors that have Audyssey XT32 have identical room correction systems.

It's common that someone who doesn't have a clue will say "better parts" / "better build" / "higher quality" / "better processing" to justify the price.

The only extra processing I know that the x4700h has that the x3700h doesn't is the auro3d support, so if you need that feature you should get the x4700h. Otherwise the feature difference is negligible (slightly larger power supply although the amplifiers seem to be the same, front hdmi input...) - Nothing that really justifies the large price difference if you don't use auro3d.
 

MLaranjeiras

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I did. I ve already read the measurement reviews but there is nothing about whether it processes surround better than an AVR
Save your money, make some charity. Do not waste it on subjetives. A brand Denon 3700 is the best choice. After three years on audio whatsapp group, even with many good guys on it, I realized that this discussions, after a certain point, is paranoya. Drives you crazy. Get the cheaper, have a good time with your favorites movies, shows and music. If not, after your choose your AV receiver, some will say: "and the cables?"
 
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