The Case For AVRs... Am I missing something???

[Astrozombie]

I would only need about 5 channels, it would be great if we could have a custom AVR with upgrades for those 5 channels instead of getting 11 shoved in there.

 

[Spocko]

I dont understand how does this become a stereo vs avr when they are catering for different markets. Is it you folks ran out of things to argue about???..

I couldn't agree more! AVRs are designed specifically to supplement the "movie watching" experience, in other words, not critical listening to your favorite tunes. Stereo equipment makers assume you are focused on the audio and can hear the nuanced differences from the premium parts, design, DSP, etc. that all go towards stimulating only one sense - your hearing. Movie watching practically shuts down your critical listening skills with distractingly bombastic soundtracks and a compelling plot/dialogue. Given this reality, why would you want to pay more for extra audio performance that you will not notice. It's like asking why sports car owners don't buy an SUV or Minivan or vice versa. Or demanding Toyota offer more aggressive suspension tuning packaged with Michelin Pilot Sport tires on your Sienna Minivan. Completely different engineering and design objectives and constraints within a given budget.

 

[Doodski]

AVRs are designed specifically to supplement the "movie watching" experience

What about something like a Yamaha AVR with DSP settings programmed specifically for music listening?

 

[Spocko]

What about something like a Yamaha AVR with DSP settings programmed specifically for music listening?

You mean the "music listening" DSP that adds reverb to imitate the "music hall" experience? LOL I'm speechless

 

[Doodski]

You mean the "music listening" DSP that adds reverb to imitate the "music hall" experience? LOL I'm speechless

I've listened to dedicated Yamaha DSP surround processors and flagship receivers that sounded pretty decent after one listens for a half hour or more and adjusts their mind to the effect. It was pretty good I thought. It did require some time to adjust otherwise the effect was foreign to me but I would use it at home if I wanted surround.

 

[GD Fan]

You mean the "music listening" DSP that adds reverb to imitate the "music hall" experience? LOL I'm speechless

Hopefully you don't mean to incorrectly suggest that dreadful 'music hall' setting is the only option for music that Yamaha's AVRs offer.

 

[Webninja]

I use to be in the must have stereo amp camp, but recently I like watching music videos, and although I was skeptical, Apple’s Spatial Audio has been very enjoyable.

The more I listen to multichannel audio, the less I believe the rigid stereo for music and surround for movies.

Room correction is also very convenient and for the price, hard to beat an AVR.

For casual listening, I think @Sal1950 said it best, if your cooking in the kitchen or working in the garage, you don’t need a stereo set up.

 

[soundwave76]

I would NOT shed a tear if ASR would drop measuring the entire AVR segment…

 

[Chromatischism]

I couldn't agree more! AVRs are designed specifically to supplement the "movie watching" experience, in other words, not critical listening to your favorite tunes. Stereo equipment makers assume you are focused on the audio and can hear the nuanced differences from the premium parts, design, DSP, etc. that all go towards stimulating only one sense - your hearing. Movie watching practically shuts down your critical listening skills with distractingly bombastic soundtracks and a compelling plot/dialogue. Given this reality, why would you want to pay more for extra audio performance that you will not notice. It's like asking why sports car owners don't buy an SUV or Minivan or vice versa. Or demanding Toyota offer more aggressive suspension tuning packaged with Michelin Pilot Sport tires on your Sienna Minivan. Completely different engineering and design objectives and constraints within a given budget.

That may have been the case at some point, but I think the gap has closed and today's AVRs would probably stand-up stereo gear in blind testing.

Has anyone performed such a (controlled) test?

 

[Chromatischism]

I would NOT shed a tear if ASR would drop measuring the entire AVR segment…

I think it's really important to know if they are up to par. They've always gotten a bad rap from the stereo-only crowd so it's nice to see when everything checks out.

 

[Doodski]

I would NOT shed a tear if ASR would drop measuring the entire AVR segment…

I was not into the testing of AVRs initially but now I enjoy reading the tests and seeing the wheat cut from the chaff. There is a big following of readers at ASR that are AVR people. It's big business.

 

[Spocko]

That may have been the case at some point, but I think the gap has closed and today's AVRs would probably stand-up stereo gear in blind testing.
Has anyone performed such a (controlled) test?

If I was a betting man, I'd say that the new Onkyo AVR with Dirac should sound pretty incredible, and possibly better than similarly priced dedicated stereo systems without room correction (assuming appropriately sensitive speakers to match the Onkyo).

 

[Spocko]

Hopefully you don't mean to incorrectly suggest that dreadful 'music hall' setting is the only option for music that Yamaha's AVRs offer.

LOL no I was just being a snarky, the last time I heard Yamaha's DSP effects were over 10 years ago so I hope things have improved since then!

 

[krabapple]

I dont understand how does this become a stereo vs avr when they are catering for different markets. Is it you folks ran out of things to argue about???..

They may cater to different markets, and that may foster a mythology that one performs audibly better than the other....but that's marketing, not reliably demonstrable fact.

 

[krabapple]

I couldn't agree more! AVRs are designed specifically to supplement the "movie watching" experience, in other words, not critical listening to your favorite tunes. Stereo equipment makers assume you are focused on the audio and can hear the nuanced differences from the premium parts, design, DSP, etc. that all go towards stimulating only one sense - your hearing.

[etc , etc]

LOL. That sounds terrific. Now all you have to do is prove that it works that way in reality. (And yes, that means translate something like SINAD difference into blind listening test results)

I use my AVR(s) for 99% *music only* listening. I need an AVR because I have an extensive collection of 5.1 remixes. (Most are 'hi rez', btw). Not to mention that I get cool features like speaker setup, room EQ correction, dynamic loudness control, upmixing.... All are typically missing on stereo-only hardware, despite stereo-only setups benefitting from them too.

I often get the feeling that stereo-only listeners are living in some amusingly quaint bubble of the hobby, divorced from decades of progress in home audio. Your stereotypes of AVR owners and AVR use gave me that feeling again.

 

[bigguyca]

I would NOT shed a tear if ASR would drop measuring the entire AVR segment…

Measurements of AVR's and AVP's are perhaps the greatest service ASR provides. No where else are these measurements, in the level of detail and with the level of insight that is provided in ASR, available.

The quantification of the negative effects that Marantz HDAM's and non-standard reconstruction filters have on performance, the substitution of inferior capacitors in the Denon X6700H, and the excellent value provide by the X3700H, are just some of the many examples.

The simple measurements that demonstrated that at least some RCA inputs on Denon/Marantz AVR's are not digitized provided information that was not available. For years this was fact was stated incorrectly by one of the "technical experts" on AVSForum with members making purchasing decisions based on completely incorrect information.

With changes in the DAC IC's in AVR's and other products due to AKM's fire it will be worthwhile to understand if the different, and often less capable DAC IC's selected for AKM replacements has affected measurable performance.

It's possible that improvements due to replacing the AKM units. For example, in the Monoprice HTP-1, replacement of the AKM DAC IC's on the DAC to XLR output board with the required redesign of the board, would allow an easy redesign of the unfortunate analog output gain structure.

ASR has a positive effect on driving improvement in the performance of AVR's that should not be lost.

 

[David Harper]

There's no technical reason why an AVR can't sound as good as stereo separates. There probably are marketing reasons having to do with audiophile
assumptions about "high end" separates. And a lot of psychology at work. Even a relatively inexpensive AVR ($600 to $800) when matched with 2 good high efficiency speakers should have sq equal to that of so called "high end" separates.

 

[pseudoid]

I am willing to guess that there is an order of magnitude more power amplifiers manufacturers (for sale) on the market than there are PreAmp/Processors (A + AV varieties)... which makes me wonder if the poll should have originally included a third choice... which makes me wonder if the poll should have also originally included being able to select more than one of the (3?) choices available... which makes me wonder if a PC should be considered as an AV Pre/Pro.... which makes me wonder if my mate is slipping me Ritalin...

 

[beefkabob]

I can get a more powerful 2-channel amp. I can better better SINAD and overall performance from a 2-channel amp. I can use a cheap and fantastic DAMP with a two channel amp.

But mainly it's that I only use two channels and sub, even for movies.

 

[Chromatischism]

I can get a more powerful 2-channel amp. I can better better SINAD and overall performance from a 2-channel amp. I can use a cheap and fantastic DAMP with a two channel amp.

But mainly it's that I only use two channels and sub, even for movies.

What 2-channel amp can decode surround formats, handle bass management, and perform room correction?