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Talk me out the Sony MDR-Z1R's

imas69 said:
Blah blah, 10s hundreds it's still not something that is not set in stone when there is a community of millions and just because people like you think that every headphone should sound the same it doesn't mean that they should and just because a certain headphone doesn't conform to your supposedly perfect curve it doesn't make it a perfect headphone and you say a headphone may sound dull based on the frequency response without ever hearing it, at least I have the common decency to mention headphones that I own. Go back to your silly little graphs and I'll go back to actually listening.
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I don't want this to become a Harman curve debate.

I do think its valuable to see the study design and see what was changed and what the comparison curves were. Additionally I am personally interested in what the research shows about how deviations and regional amplitude variations (because all sets have deviations) effect perceived sound and preferences.
 
Benesyed said:
I do think its valuable to see the study design and see what was changed and what the comparison curves were. Additionally I am personally interested in what the research shows about how deviations and regional amplitude variations (because all sets have deviations) effect perceived sound and preferences.
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Me too, that's completely legit. In fact Dan Clarke explored this in his Stealth and Expanse models. As did Knowles for the IEM target. Any changes will be fairly small in magnitude though, buy not insignificant. At the same time there's more variability in the broad low end between average and personal preference.

Benesyed said:
It's a lot of great research is there anywhere is easily accessible, do we have a journal club for audio research on this site?

It would be interesting to see the study design and variable parameters.
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The meat of Sean Olives studies are behind a paywall. Excerpts and summaries are scattered, I wish I could point to a single resource, maybe someone else has something handy.
 
I'm not saying that you shouldn't be interested but I don't think headphones should be recommended based solely on their frequency response especially being that the simple fact is that all headphones will sound good with some genres and not others, I own 25 pairs of headphones as I need them for business and not one of them is perfect for every genre of music that I listen to. The Sony is a fantastic headphone for some and others hate it and this is the case for just about every headphone, people love the lcd-xc I personally think it's diabolical but just because it doesn't suit my tastes.
 
I think it's fair to say it has issues in it's FR and is something to audition as a lot of thoughtful ppl have reservations. they being said, I love it and prefer it to the Focal Clears for most of my use case
 
I don't own Z1Rs, but I do own their little brother the Sony MDR Z7M2. Like their "big brother" the Z1R, the Z7M2 have some FR issues which make them a bit of a pain to EQ. On the flip side, the Z7M2s are by far the most comfortable headphone I have ever worn, and I believe the Z1Rs use the same pads.
 
I own the MDR-Z1R, along with many other headphones (from Grado GS1000 to Sennheiser 650, Shure 1840, Ultrasone, Oppo, etc) and many iem's as well. To this day, the Z1R's are my go-to when it comes to enjoying long listening sessions. They're the most comfortable and non-fatiguing pair of headphones. Not neutral, but nicely warm and musical, with a good soundstage. And the build and packaging are magnificent! Highly recommended.
 
imas69 said:
I'm not saying that you shouldn't be interested but I don't think headphones should be recommended based solely on their frequency response especially being that the simple fact is that all headphones will sound good with some genres and not others, I own 25 pairs of headphones as I need them for business and not one of them is perfect for every genre of music that I listen to. The Sony is a fantastic headphone for some and others hate it and this is the case for just about every headphone, people love the lcd-xc I personally think it's diabolical but just because it doesn't suit my tastes.
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Now just a moment. If we wouldn't recommend equipment based on measurements then what else is there? It would be just a bunch of people you know nothing about touting their personal opinions based both on actual sound quality but also on load of biases such as "I cannot afford any better" or "I bought it and I have to convince myself that I made a good choice". These kind of recommendations have little to none actual value when considering a purchase. But if you want them, there are numerous forums that have exactly that.

When it comes to Harman curve, it seems that majority of users here seem to like it or something more or less same. So now we have a target curve that seems to be way, way more preferred than for example some arbitrary curve provided by a headphone that some random dude says he thinks it's just the ticket for "melodic funeral doom nu-metal with tambourines"

So, Harman and measurements are not the final word for every headphone for every user for every type of music, but it's seems to be the best we have.
 
bodhi said:
Now just a moment. If we wouldn't recommend equipment based on measurements then what else is there? It would be just a bunch of people you know nothing about touting their personal opinions based both on actual sound quality but also on load of biases such as "I cannot afford any better" or "I bought it and I have to convince myself that I made a good choice". These kind of recommendations have little to none actual value when considering a purchase. But if you want them, there are numerous forums that have exactly that.

When it comes to Harman curve, it seems that majority of users here seem to like it or something more or less same. So now we have a target curve that seems to be way, way more preferred than for example some arbitrary curve provided by a headphone that some random dude says he thinks it's just the ticket for "melodic funeral doom nu-metal with tambourines"

So, Harman and measurements are not the final word for every headphone for every user for every type of music, but it's seems to be the best we have.
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Measurements are a great place to start but I think the caveat remains that it is best to try things.

I was very excited to try the DCA stealths because they measure so well. I did not enjoy them at all even though i thought I would. Whereas the Susvara and Utopia, which I didn't think I would like based on measurements, I loved!

I think perhaps the unique deviations from ideal Harman curve add "flavor" that makes a meaningful difference to users in a way we might not fully understand. I've used measurements as a way to note what FR oddities bother me vs which ones I prefer.
 
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Benesyed said:
I think perhaps the unique deviations from ideal Harman curve add "flavor" that makes a meaningful difference to users in a way we might not fully understand. I've used measurements as a way to note what FR oddities bother me vs which ones I prefer.
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This makes it an unsafe general recommendation. It's reasonable to expect a good performance for general use for a premium product IMO.
 
markanini said:
This makes it an unsafe general recommendation. It's reasonable to expect a good performance for general use for a premium product IMO.
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It is a good general recommendation. on average most people prefer that sounds signature. however that doesn't mean they think that that is their ideal sound signature. The very idea of average most preferred sound signature means that there could be individual variations that result in deviations being more preferred by particular individuals even if on the whole the most generally preferred is the Harmon target. in that sense I agree with the first part of your statement that it is unsafe to use the Harman Target as a pure perfect ideal for a premium product because the expectations of a premium product are that it should be extremely appealing to our individual preference and that's not really what an aggregate average provides. and as far as I know from the research that was done the conclusion is not that the harmon target is the best target for all of the people who preferred it over all other tunings but rather it was on average from the various tunings tested preferred.

The problem I have is with the second part. I actually think that a premium product by it's very nature of being costly narrows down the scope of people who are interested in it and by definition is not a general use product. especially when we have mid-tier headphones that are extremely well balanced. It doesn't make sense to me why you would buy a premium product for general use. It makes more sense to have a general use product like say the Sennheiser 600s for your general use and then your premium product should be specialist products. now I'm being a little facetious because I do understand the allure of having a single well built headphone that can do 90% of the different styles of music and day-to-day variations in listening preferences but for all intents and purposes those already exist and have for a while in the Sennheiser 800 and more affordably 600 series.
 
Benesyed said:
It doesn't make sense to me why you would buy a premium product for general use.
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Tell that to Sennheiser, who crated a $59000 headphone that complies rather well to Harman.
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bodhi said:
Now just a moment. If we wouldn't recommend equipment based on measurements then what else is there? It would be just a bunch of people you know nothing about touting their personal opinions based both on actual sound quality but also on load of biases such as "I cannot afford any better" or "I bought it and I have to convince myself that I made a good choice". These kind of recommendations have little to none actual value when considering a purchase. But if you want them, there are numerous forums that have exactly that.

When it comes to Harman curve, it seems that majority of users here seem to like it or something more or less same. So now we have a target curve that seems to be way, way more preferred than for example some arbitrary curve provided by a headphone that some random dude says he thinks it's just the ticket for "melodic funeral doom nu-metal with tambourines"

So, Harman and measurements are not the final word for every headphone for every user for every type of music, but it's seems to be the best we have.
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No, the best we have are our ears, something that the majority of people on here don't seem to be able to use
 
imas69 said:
No, the best we have are our ears, something that the majority of people on here don't seem to be able to use
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It‘s a bit like the CRT/Sony PVM crowd who like to spend more time chasing pretty scanline images and hardware than playing the games :)

I have a ZR1. The bass is a bit boomy and the mids slightly muddy but no other headphone I’ve heard makes me feel like I’m right there at a concert as it does. It’s like a mini subwoofer on my cranium and not in the crappy skull crushers or Beats by Dre kind of way, the sub-bass is deep and articulate. I own other more technical summit-tier phones like the Expanse and Utopia that may measure better, but they’re not as fun to listen to.
 
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