Sundara Stealth Magnet version on the books?

[jonwb]

I've been auditioning the Hifiman HE400se for studio mixing. I gotta tell you, with slight adjustments to the 2k and sub bass region (Amir's EQ), these are very good. Lately Hifiman seems to be integrating its Stealth Magnet tech into its latest Planars. I'm wondering if anyone has information on whether the company plans to add this to the Sundara?

Thanks

 

[RoA]

What does a 'stealth' magnet do compared to one that isn't?

 

[Rayman30]

What does a 'stealth' magnet do compared to one that isn't?

̶I̶t̶s̶ ̶a̶ ̶d̶i̶f̶f̶e̶r̶e̶n̶t̶ ̶f̶l̶a̶v̶o̶r̶ ̶o̶f̶ ̶s̶n̶a̶k̶e̶ ̶o̶i̶l̶ but as far as I can tell, just a brighter tuning.

 

[Blorg]

̶I̶t̶s̶ ̶a̶ ̶d̶i̶f̶f̶e̶r̶e̶n̶t̶ ̶f̶l̶a̶v̶o̶r̶ ̶o̶f̶ ̶s̶n̶a̶k̶e̶ ̶o̶i̶l̶ but as far as I can tell, just a brighter tuning.

It's not snake oil if it actually makes a difference to the FR, which it does.

 

[Blorg]

What does a 'stealth' magnet do compared to one that isn't?

Planars use magnets on one or both sides of the diagphram. These magnets block the sound. The idea with their stealth magnets which are rounded on the outer edges is they are more acoustically transparent. Like Rayman30 says, they do tend to make a headphone brighter, particularly in the very high treble. It depends on other factors and the rest of the headphone as to whether this is a positive or not. The Sundara is less bright in the treble than most Hifimans, and many like it this way. The Sundara Closed Back, incidentally, uses stealth magnets and sounds much worse than the open back Sundara, I have both of them. But that's not from the stealth magnets.

Some (like Resolve) feel the Ananda Stealth was worse than the OG Ananda, particularly in the treble. I think I'd say it's better overall, but more as the bass is much better, I'd take the rest from the OG Ananda.

The issue with all this is it's hard to pin down exactly as there are few headphones where literally the only change is stealth magnets vs not, the Ananda Stealth while brighter in the high treble also improved the bass and that's unlikely to be anything to do with the stealth magnets. Sundara whether it's open back or closed is a much bigger difference than the magnets.

They brought them to the HE400SE well before the Sundara, I maybe have the feeling they realize adding them to that risks screwing up the tuning, which is somewhat unique in Hifiman, in that it has less recessed 1-2kHz and more restrained treble. That's what a lot of people like about it and it's not clear that stealth magnets would improve it.

 

[Rayman30]

Planars use magnets on one or both sides of the diagphram. These magnets block the sound. The idea with their stealth magnets which are rounded on the outer edges is they are more acoustically transparent. Like Rayman30 says, they do tend to make a headphone brighter, particularly in the very high treble. It depends on other factors and the rest of the headphone as to whether this is a positive or not. The Sundara is less bright in the treble than most Hifimans, and many like it this way. The Sundara Closed Back, incidentally, uses stealth magnets and sounds much worse than the open back Sundara, I have both of them. But that's not from the stealth magnets.

Some (like Resolve) feel the Ananda Stealth was worse than the OG Ananda, particularly in the treble. I think I'd say it's better overall, but more as the bass is much better, I'd take the rest from the OG Ananda.

The issue with all this is it's hard to pin down exactly as there are few headphones where literally the only change is stealth magnets vs not, the Ananda Stealth while brighter in the high treble also improved the bass and that's unlikely to be anything to do with the stealth magnets. Sundara whether it's open back or closed is a much bigger difference than the magnets.

They brought them to the HE400SE well before the Sundara, I maybe have the feeling they realize adding them to that risks screwing up the tuning, which is somewhat unique in Hifiman, in that it has less recessed 1-2kHz and more restrained treble. That's what a lot of people like about it and it's not clear that stealth magnets would improve it.

That sounds great and all, but it reads more like a commercial from HiFiman. Where is the Science that backs this up? has anyone actually measured a Non-Stealth vs. a Stealth version of the Ananda or Arya? its just that this type of marketing fluff "feels like" or "I think its better" which I totally get, subjectively describing differences is part of it, but it doesn't really mean anything. As a consumer how do I know that there is a real tangible difference between the objective measurements? was there no way for Hifiman to actually improve on their design without using the new magnetic structure? because the evidence does not suggest that, when comparing the Sundara with the original Ananda, it was clear by Amir's measurements that the Sundara was objectively superior, and this was the case despite not having "Stealth Magnet Technology" so if they can improve on their design without it, why do we need it? this lack of clarity from the manufacturer has turned me off from the brand personally.

 

[solderdude]

Chances are changing of pads, often occurring at the same time different magnets, or something in the membrane or traces is changed at the same time the pads will likely make the biggest difference.
Looking at the various models and 'revisions' they all measure more similar than different. The small differences (a dB here or there) of course can be audible.

 

[Blorg]

has anyone actually measured a Non-Stealth vs. a Stealth version of the Ananda or Arya?

There have been many measurements of stealth vs non-stealth Hifimans and stealth seems to pretty consistently increase the high treble. It's not typically the only change though you can't necessarily ascribe all the changes to the stealth magnets. But that does seem to be a trend.

Custom Cans HE400SE stealth vs non-stealth

Headphones.com Ananda stealth, GRAS measurements. Resolve commented it was brighter:

@sai measurements of both:

Squiglink - IEM frequency response database by Sai

Compare hundreds of frequency response graphs between IEMs and earphones from manufacturers like Moondrop, Sony, 64 Audio, Fiio, and more.

sai.squig.link

Crinacle measurments of Arya vs Arya Stealth:

when comparing the Sundara with the original Ananda, it was clear by Amir's measurements that the Sundara was objectively superior, and this was the case despite not having "Stealth Magnet Technology"

The original Ananda didn't have stealth magnets either. I don't agree that the Sundara is "objectively superior" either, Amir's measurements of the OG Ananda are not the only measurements and were an outlier. He didn't get a seal on the measuring rig and this compromises the measurements. I have both of them, personally I'd say the Ananda is a step up from the Sundara. Much better soundstage. If you want closer to Harman/HD650 though, the Sundara is closer to that, and is the better pick for someone who wants a more forward midrange. I don't demand Harman compliance between 1-3kHz, I am quite happy with the recess there on Hifiman, and many other headphones known for soundstage, like the HD800S. This is preference, though, and it's the exact same reason you find people who say they prefer the tuning of the HD600/HD650 over the HD800S, it's the exact same difference in the 1-3kHz region. Does this mean the HD600/HD650 is "objectively superior" to the HD800S? It's superior for people who want that tuning.

I mentioned myself that the Sundara is very well tuned as is, and as such the stealth magnets making it brighter might not be an improvement. And it isn't necessarily an improvement on the Ananda either, while Resolve commented it was brighter he didn't think this was a positive, it was a negative. So it's not that stealth magnets always = better, but they do seem to make some difference in the high treble.

Like @solderdude says as well, they are more similar than different... this is nitpicking over a very small change. And a change in the high treble where many will be less sensitive anyway. All Hifiman's oval headphones do sound very very similar to me. I do believe the stealth magnets do make a small change though, as it seems to be a consistent trend over multiple implementations, that they do seem to increase the high treble. I'm certainly not claiming this is a huge difference, it's not. But I don't think it's no difference either.